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Gardtec 800 having problems


Steve Jones

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53 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

I will get a picture of a PIR inside, meanwhile I was given the engineer code by an employee, unofficially.....I easily changed it to what I wanted, then, as I said, the engineer code just vanished after using it for several years...any ideas ?

 

you say it’s more expensive due to the number of sensors, does that mean each sensor needs ‘ modding’ ?

 

also on RS website the 600 is listed as discontinued.....any ideas on a good alternative,  or is this still good ? could see what the installers I ask for quotes suggest.....

 

as a side note, I decided to test the system and check the battery in the outside bell box.....this box is 27 years old ish and the battery is still functioning, just got to hang in till the upgrade....only trouble is, the plastic is a bit brittle and one of the retaining lugs broke off, so the box doesn’t fit quite as it should do.....kept making the tamper go off.....have jumpered the micro switch to bypass the tamper, for now.....but the keypad is showing the fault log....it’s all clear now and works fine, even changed the master code from default to my own one.....but no engineer code ???

 

so not sure how to clear this display, not that it matters, for when I enter the master code, it just asks me if I want to set the alarm or not.......just curious..

 

 

10715A85-9457-4225-A72B-7358F119A834.jpeg

Remind me why you looking to replace the panel?

 

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I removed a PIR a year or two ago for decorating and a wire came loose and shorted out the panel PSU a local alarm installer jumped the supply to the PSU Of a phone dialler I had fitted but never used.....

 

but it works ok.......he said it couldn’t really be repaired, that was the best he could do.......so,I thought maybe it should be replaced.....my original problem was that the exit KP occasionally displayed system busy ( or maybe in use )  so was told it was either the KP faulty or a corrupt program.....maybe a full power down and reset would clear that, but not sure if it would...

 

dont want to throw money away......so could just replace one KP power down and reset from factory default....still don’t know if I will get the engineer code back ( although as I said I actually changed this myself previously, so can’t  be locked can it ? )

 

really not not sure of my best, low cost options

 

also is the 600 still a good option if it’s now discontinued ?

 

thanks

PS  can the press no to view alarm display be removed ?

On 08/12/2017 at 18:18, PeterJames said:

Are you sure its an 800? The keypad looks too late for an 800 it could be an 872 but it looks more 595 

It says 814 when it powers up

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9 hours ago, Steve Jones said:

Here are pictures of the PIR

 

 

BB71D936-115F-458C-ADD0-A668FCD207B3.jpeg

FCE3E050-E5C9-47CC-9C5D-6AF8E942E26E.jpeg

Thanks

 

I see the black wire is fitted very well, why use all the strands when you can leave some out :whistle:  to be fair i would only be happy with the yellow wire connection. Maybe i have some OCD issues.

 

This is wired EOL.

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Thanks

 

i agree, I am also very fussy with wiring, there is only one way, the correct way..

 

the keypad dispays have now now reverted back to time and date...???

 

i know you said this forum isn’t to reach people how to,install alarms, but would,like to,fit a new bell box myself, until I save up to get the rest done...

 

looking at https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0105Y55QO/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3NLCN459QEJT5&colid=9W5E32SIOQWC&psc=1

 

do you agree with the choice and is it a straight swop ? If you don’t feel able to,assist me with this, I completely understand

 

thanks

 

ps I commented the 600 is discontinued, so is this still viable ?

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Its a 610 or 620 now or something it is still available, Its the easiest swap over, but its not the best panel. Risco now produce lightsys or something, we looked at that too but its not that good.

 

We only install HKC now which is not really a DIY product, I think that Texecom Premier seems to be the weapon of choice for premium DIY installations. Pyronix also have an offering, thats popular with DIY neither brand is supposed to be DIY but people dont have any trouble getting hold of them.  

 

I wouldnt buy a Pyronix bell, go for a Texecom or Risco bell the polycarbinate is much better quality, it doesnt expand in sun.

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41 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

i agree, I am also very fussy with wiring, there is only one way, the correct way..

 

eh ? the panel look like is was wired in the dark by a trainee...

 

the pir looks like one screw, there a massive hole in the arse of it, the conductors have been poorly done, the resistors have'nt been cut down or fitted logically 

 

41 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

i know you said this forum isn’t to reach people how to,install alarms, but would,like to,fit a new bell box myself, until I save up to get the rest done...

 

looking at https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0105Y55QO/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=I3NLCN459QEJT5&colid=9W5E32SIOQWC&psc=1

 

do you agree with the choice and is it a straight swop ? If you don’t feel able to,assist me with this, I completely understand

 

thanks

 

ps I commented the 600 is discontinued, so is this still viable ?

 

For me It very easy to fit your "scatsecure" sounder, 5 wires, a link wire across the pcb terminals

 

41 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

ps I commented the 600 is discontinued, so is this still viable ?

 

I could order one today & it should be at yours on Wednesday 

 

However the issue will selling to the public or giving staff kit their not trained & familiar with is the length of time explaining why "xyz" doesn't work & its very rarely anything wrong with the kit

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Mr? Veritas God

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8 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

I wouldnt buy a Pyronix bell, go for a Texecom or Risco bell the polycarbinate is much better quality, it doesnt expand in sun.

 

I'd had few issues with this,

 

I see lots going up & have wondered how many call back the large player get ?

Mr? Veritas God

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3 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

 

I'd had few issues with this,

 

I see lots going up & have wondered how many call back the large player get ?

Many dont connect the tampers that way it cant go wrong.........cant it?

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4 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

Many dont connect the tampers that way it cant go wrong.........cant it?

 

probably, most which I've poached don't have the battery connected  

 

OP, Gardtec lists the parts no's as

 

GT02083 expander

KIT601MG3STU  metal panel with keypad

GT01152BL blue rkp

 

however google appears to say no ;)

Mr? Veritas God

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48 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

 

I'd had few issues with this,

 

I see lots going up & have wondered how many call back the large player get ?

Never had a problem with pyronix, apart from a grade 3 module , which one of you had to tell me why it didn't work , all real alarm man stuff , that's y TSI needs you

 

 

CukxE5vWcAA0JIv.jpg

49 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

Many dont connect the tampers that way it cant go wrong.........cant it?

So they know how to disconnect the tampers?

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26 minutes ago, al-yeti said:

Never had a problem with pyronix, apart from a grade 3 module , which one of you had to tell me why it didn't work , all real alarm man stuff , that's y TSI needs you

 

 

CukxE5vWcAA0JIv.jpg

So they know how to disconnect the tampers?

 

G3 aren't a very good design,  requiring prating with resistors on most controls

 

"adjusting" the jumper by fitting a jumper on the PCB will certainly any problems with the lid expanding

Mr? Veritas God

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Engineer code has likely been changed because it was discovered that the engineer was giving it out. For companies it's important there engineering code is kept secure.

It's also possible the code has been locked upon doing this.

 

I fail to see how shorting the PIR wiring out would damage the panel, but I suppose it is Risco. This really should be checked there maybe no damage to the panel.

Panel and sensors very untidy.

 

As I said earlier in the thread everyone will have a different opinion on what panel to use.

I wouldn't put Risco back in but it may be easier to swap like for like in a DIY situation now that we know your system is actually EOL.

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On 02/01/2018 at 10:35, sixwheeledbeast said:

Engineer code has likely been changed because it was discovered that the engineer was giving it out. For companies it's important there engineering code is kept secure.

It's also possible the code has been locked upon doing this.

 

I fail to see how shorting the PIR wiring out would damage the panel, but I suppose it is Risco. This really should be checked there maybe no damage to the panel.

Panel and sensors very untidy.

 

As I said earlier in the thread everyone will have a different opinion on what panel to use.

I wouldn't put Risco back in but it may be easier to swap like for like in a DIY situation now that we know your system is actually EOL.

Hello

no one has been near the panel,since I changed the engineer code myself.....worked fine for years then suddenly wasn’t there anymore......defaulting the device reset the master code, but my number and the default number do nothing....the original installers actually told me how to default the panel to restore engineer code.....so not locked in anyway......I removed the PIR  and the powers supply came out and sparked, then the panel was dead.....so the PSU was stopped to,the unused phone dialler module........

 

so the oanel has had a PSU fault, the outside box is falling apart, had to bypass tamper as the case distorted (30 years old) the flashing LED in the box came apart, so don’t know which of the three wires go where in the connector ( not urgent I guess )

one of the keypads has a broken front flap ( again not urgent ) but get the occasional system in use from the exit keypad .....the other keypad no problem 

 

so so it’s not very happy at the moment......as I will get an alarm installer, not the original one I think.....to install the necessary equipment......what is my best choice for an alarm system p l e a s e......

 

8 PIR ‘s

8 smoke detectors

3 door contacts

all wired

 

 

 

Edited by sixwheeledbeast
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3 hours ago, Steve Jones said:

Hello

no one has been near the panel,since I changed the engineer code myself.....worked fine for years then suddenly wasn’t there anymore......defaulting the device reset the master code, but my number and the default number do nothing....the original installers actually told me how to default the panel to restore engineer to 1234.....so not locked in anyway......I removed the PIR  and the powers supply came out and sparked, then the panel was dead.....so the PSU was stopped to,the unused phone dialler module........

 

so the oanel has had a PSU fault, the outside box is falling apart, had to bypass tamper as the case distorted (30 years old) the flashing LED in the box came apart, so don’t know which of the three wires go where in the connector ( not urgent I guess )

one of the keypads has a broken front flap ( again not urgent ) but get the occasional system in use from the exit keypad .....the other keypad no problem 

 

so so it’s not very happy at the moment......as I will get an alarm installer, not the original one I think.....to install the necessary equipment......what is my best choice for an alarm system p l e a s e......

 

8 PIR ‘s

8 smoke detectors

3 door contacts

all wired

 

 

 

At moment depends on your budget , which I thought you can't do , so after a few u turns I suggest you make your mind up what to do , not having a dig dude, just you changing your mind every post 

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Surely this would just blow a fuse, either way it doesn't matter, this is a huge difference from the suspected faulty keypad we initially tried to diagnose.

It would have helped to know the full picture from the original post IMO, this could explain some of the posts you received.

 

A system of that size would need to be a commercial size panel, so as we said before expect it to be considerably more than £400.

There is no best choice, every installer will have a different selection of kit that they offer. Let them study the property and assess the risk to the property.

 

You really need to get some installers round to quote the system, expect them to quote to replace all electronic components.

If it is helpful post up the equipment specified in the quotes you get and we can try to advise you further.

 

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Wasn’t under the impression it was a commercial size panel......I have the original spec sheet, would that help ?

 

this started off with just a power down default, to reset the engineer code and maybe one new KP....seems to be escalating...

 

I will arrange for 3 quotes......

 

has anyone any ideas about the engineer code not being reset, based on the info I provided ?

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Most domestics would be 8 zones or less generally.

 

in relation to defaulting ect, providing you did the default correctly I would suggest either

1. It was locked

2. Panel has done something odd.

 

either way that’s not going to help you now, panels can do some odd stuff especially when back up batteries are depleted and being defaulted ect.

i have seen some panels not recover from defaulting.

 

good luck with your quotes

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You can still buy those rkp if you really want to save cash. I would also look at the fuse marked aux take it out and meter it. It could be that you damaged the regulator but I think it unlikely.

 

Was the original installer approved ie ssaib or NSI?

 

If you feel that a system change is in order I would suggest you get three quotes, I would recommend you use an approved company, which doesnt necessarily mean you will get a better job but it does mean you will get some protection if you dont. Post the quotes here and we will provide you with our thoughts. Overall I would suggest that you pick the installer that you feel most comfortable with, this is unlikely to be the cheapest. Good alarm engineers are hard to find and therefore they demand good wages, so any co that suspiciously cheap should be avoided.

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29 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

.

 

has anyone any ideas about the engineer code not being reset, based on the info I provided ?

If it was locked originally and you changed it using the original engineers code then whatever you changed it to will be locked too. I seem to remember it was something along the lines of that any number that starts or ends with a 7 automatically locked the engineer code. I would try different combinations of the code that you think you changed it to, chances are you are using the wrong code and its locked so wont default. Its not unheard of for alarm systems to forget codes the Version 2.2 Ab ^ panel used to forget the user code, but only after it was set. 

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The number I used was 88888888 so can’t try combinations LOL......

dont think it was ever locked, as the install company told me how to default it......

 

think there is a jumper that achieves this but I don’t suspect you will be able to reveal that, even if there was......

 

had a look for alarm installets, is there a recommended list for Essex ?

 

thanks for all the advice so far

 

have one other question, again don’t answer if you feel you shouldn’t tell me.....

 

but it when I checked the bell box battery, the two colour LED in the case front became detached from the connection, has 3 wires....wonder if I can try trial and error or could I do damage

 

thanks again

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6 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

think there is a jumper that achieves this but I don’t suspect you will be able to reveal that, even if there was......

A jumper would make locking pointless, it is a setting in the programming. If you changed the code without checking the programming you wouldn't be able to tell if it was locked.

 

6 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

had a look for alarm installets, is there a recommended list for Essex ?

http://www.thesecurityinstaller.co.uk/community/forum/221-essex-security-installers/

https://www.nsi.org.uk/directory/

https://ssaib.org/security-provider-search/

 

6 minutes ago, Steve Jones said:

but it when I checked the bell box battery, the two colour LED in the case front became detached from the connection, has 3 wires....wonder if I can try trial and error or could I do damage

Incoming installer will replace the box anyway.

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1 minute ago, Steve Jones said:

The number I used was 88888888 so can’t try combinations LOL......

dont think it was ever locked, as the install company told me how to default it......

 

 

Too many digits  I am sure its only 4 or 6 digit. The defaulting method is as you said, there are no jumpers that will default the panel

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