Steve Jones Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, MrHappy said: premier or a full euro, Are these makes ? couldnt find them to investigate......so another gardtec isn’t necessarily simpler for the upgrade ? just can’t afford £400 been quoted for two new KP’s and a panel..... would one one of the systems you suggest accept the sensor cabling I have without modding....resistors etc ? thanks be cheaper to buy a dog LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 £400 sounds very cheap. Good luck with the vets bills for your dog, if you think alarms are expensive. I know this is the DIY forum but you can't teach people how to install an alarm in a forum. Many of us here have been doing this a long time and have qualifications for what we do to provide the best standard of protection for our customers. It's not all about sticking boxes on walls, putting coloured wires in holes and making Mario music from a keypad in the hall, despite popular believe. Generally we can tell if you are competent at the task from the questions you ask, it would be silly not to advise you to seek professional help at this point. There are mains voltages present and electronics that could overheat or even, catch fire if wired incorrectly. I would not like to be responsible for any issues occurring from injury or death. Sorry if this is similar to what you got from your plumbing forum but it's true, we see enough poorly fitted stuff day to day during working hours not to assist in making more in our spare time. As I said before you are looking for a panel capable of wiring DP circuits, if you do not wish to disturb the sensors; this is Double Pole if you need to search for that. The more commercial variants of the Premier or Euro are two options and there is likely others but each installer has there own preferred kit so recommendations are not helpful in this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 Hello thanks all the advice observations and comments..... Based on what’s been said.....i have decided to abandon the present alarm system altogether and go for a wireless one.....easier to install also.. Some of the alarm wiring was installed in 1987 so not sure how long it will be before any of that fails, buried between floorboards, in walls etc etc....... so just need a good wireless alarm system, with approx 11 PIR’s 5 door sensors 3-4 smoke alarms 1-2 KP’s ( need partset overnight so may need 2 KP,s) thanks again 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 16 minutes ago, Steve Jones said: Hello thanks all the advice observations and comments..... Based on what’s been said.....i have decided to abandon the present alarm system altogether and go for a wireless one.....easier to install also.. Some of the alarm wiring was installed in 1987 so not sure how long it will be before any of that fails, buried between floorboards, in walls etc etc....... so just need a good wireless alarm system, with approx 11 PIR’s 5 door sensors 3-4 smoke alarms 1-2 KP’s ( need partset overnight so may need 2 KP,s) thanks again Nah, even Yale is going to bust your budget Based on what your saying now I think your making it all up, no one in there right mind would go from wired to wireless unless you had to Like I said , budget is busted , although some Chinese gear from.ebay might do you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted December 29, 2017 Author Share Posted December 29, 2017 We’ll call it a day, didn’t come on here to be mocked....... wanted some help to some serious quaestions......I will find out another way.. as I said the wiring is 30 years old, so a wireless system seems the way to go....... maybe this can can be closed now, don’t think I will find out what I need..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 Use the wiring thats there and replace with a Gardtec 600 panel. More or less the same programming but I would change the wiring to EOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 16 minutes ago, Hillbilly said: Use the wiring thats there and replace with a Gardtec 600 panel. More or less the same programming but I would change the wiring to EOL. qfa the cheaper diy wireless are not good, and the wiring is normally the last thing to fail its wire, it doesnt have electronic components in it. The risco cp8 uses the same eol as the 800 its only 9 zones though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjsturner Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 28 minutes ago, Steve Jones said: We’ll call it a day, didn’t come on here to be mocked....... wanted some help to some serious quaestions......I will find out another way.. as I said the wiring is 30 years old, so a wireless system seems the way to go....... maybe this can can be closed now, don’t think I will find out what I need..... Your not being mocked Steve, the good wireless is very expensive and would cost more than the £400 you didn’t want to spend anyway, they are just as hard to set up and program. i would always use the wiring if given the option, providing it’s all okay of course 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 48 minutes ago, Steve Jones said: We’ll call it a day, didn’t come on here to be mocked....... wanted some help to some serious quaestions......I will find out another way.. as I said the wiring is 30 years old, so a wireless system seems the way to go....... maybe this can can be closed now, don’t think I will find out what I need..... Definitely wasn't mocking you And doesn't change your budget is busted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 2 hours ago, Steve Jones said: Based on what’s been said.....i have decided to abandon the present alarm system altogether and go for a wireless one.....easier to install also.. Some of the alarm wiring was installed in 1987 so not sure how long it will be before any of that fails, buried between floorboards, in walls etc etc....... so just need a good wireless alarm system, with approx 11 PIR’s 5 door sensors 3-4 smoke alarms 1-2 KP’s ( need partset overnight so may need 2 KP,s) If that's what you have on your current system and you have been quoted £400, I don't know how they are making a living. I don't think I could buy my preferred suitable Panel, Expander and Keypads and have much change left. 1 hour ago, al-yeti said: Nah, even Yale is going to bust your budget Based on what your saying now I think your making it all up, no one in there right mind would go from wired to wireless unless you had to Like I said , budget is busted , although some Chinese gear from.ebay might do you This does sound a little patronising, so I appreciate your reaction. However, it is true that with the budget you have stated so far you will not get anywhere near the appropriate kit if you have chosen the wireless route. 1 hour ago, sjsturner said: the good wireless is very expensive and would cost more than the £400 you didn’t want to spend anyway, they are just as hard to set up and program. i would always use the wiring if given the option, providing it’s all okay of course Exactly. Wireless would be more than double the price of fixing up what you have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted December 29, 2017 Share Posted December 29, 2017 3 hours ago, Steve Jones said: We’ll call it a day, didn’t come on here to be mocked....... being a kind sole I've Pm'd a link to full euro on ebay, w/o checking its about £5 less then I'd paid trade for one I buy radio stuff from the same co. the items your described would cost nearer a grand Good luck Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 Thanks, for all the help will stick with wired, seems sensible and as you point out cheaper and more reliable.... i need a new panel and two keypads.....so if the consensus is a 600 I will go with that... Could you explain the EOL reference ? Sounds like end of line....... i live in essex, any suggestions for an installer ? thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 The 600 EOL is the same as the 800, assuming that you are wired EOL it could be wired 4 wire the 800 is fairly old. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 4 hours ago, Steve Jones said: Could you explain the EOL reference ? Sounds like end of line....... easy way, remove lid off pir, take pic & post imagine on here Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 (edited) Going to try and keep the existing alarm working until I can afford a gardtec 600 or similar...just the panel and two keypads... just powered down my 800 and attempted to default codes master code now at default but entering default eng code does not bring up an engineer message i changed the engineer code from that provided, many years ago, but somehow the system ‘ forgot it ‘ so can’t be locked I assume ? thanks any ideas please ? Edited December 30, 2017 by MrHappy defaulting info removed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Steve Jones said: Going to try and keep the existing alarm working until I can afford a gardtec 600 or similar...just the panel and two keypads... just powered down my 800 and attempted to default codes master code now at default but entering default eng code does not bring up an engineer message i changed the engineer code from that provided, many years ago, but somehow the system ‘ forgot it ‘ so can’t be locked I assume ? thanks any ideas please ? 600 kit to expensive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted December 30, 2017 Author Share Posted December 30, 2017 .?? How much for a panel and two keypads, I have no idea......and a typical install time and hourly rate.... My electrician friend has changed his mind, have two alarm installers local, but they very seldom reply to emils could do with a recommendation in Essex SS8 area 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WDT Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 Did you LOCK the engineer code so it could not be defaulted? Most panels this can be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted December 30, 2017 Share Posted December 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Steve Jones said: .?? How much for a panel and two keypads, I have no idea......and a typical install time and hourly rate.... My electrician friend has changed his mind, have two alarm installers local, but they very seldom reply to emils could do with a recommendation in Essex SS8 area If we were in your area we would supply and install (We only install equipment we supplied because of warranty issues that may arise ) for around £550 plus VAT for a Gtec 600 or about £490.00 plus vat for a Gtec CP8 prices approx. The labour value in the prices quoted would be £175 half a day one man, this would be our minimum charge for a panel change as we are £99.00 per hr non contract, two or three hours is more expensive than half a day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the info and prices....is everyone agreed the 600 is the way to go ? 8 PIR’s 8 Smoke detectors 3 door contacts Defaulted the system reset the master code, now changed to one I will remember ..but engineer not doing anything...I have never locked the engineer code I have used the one I changed it to several years ago without problem, then one day it was gone... is there a jumper i can set to reset this ? thanks Ps does it usually like like this inside the control panel, so many connecting blocks ....looks untidy....installed by a longstanding pro company Edited January 2, 2018 by sixwheeledbeast codes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 It could be tidier, but sometimes the tidier it is the harder it is to fault find, Ive seen far worse. It is wired EOL. If the defaulting process doesnt work then the engineer code will have been locked by the installer, this is done to prevent people changing the programming of the system and then trying to blame the installer when there is a burglary and the alarm didnt work. 600 will be compatible with EOL's so an easier DIY project, Im not sure if the 800 expander's are the same though. I hadnt realised you had 19 devices revise my price to around £675.00 plus VAT and another £70.00 plus VAT if you need an expander. If your getting someone in then would advise you get three quotes and see what they say, there will be more labour changing EOLs and expanders but the Gardtec stuff is dated nowadays. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Actually looking again that could be wired 4 wire and not eol its quite hard to tell, take a lid off a detector and take a pic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Unlikely op had engineer code , just wants to know how to unlock from start 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 3 hours ago, Steve Jones said: Ps does it usually like like this inside the control panel, so many connecting blocks ....looks untidy....installed by a longstanding pro company Shame I'm 200ml away as I'd enjoy sorting that sort of tat out.... Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jones Posted December 31, 2017 Author Share Posted December 31, 2017 I will get a picture of a PIR inside, meanwhile I was given the engineer code by an employee, unofficially.....I easily changed it to what I wanted, then, as I said, the engineer code just vanished after using it for several years...any ideas ? you say it’s more expensive due to the number of sensors, does that mean each sensor needs ‘ modding’ ? also on RS website the 600 is listed as discontinued.....any ideas on a good alternative, or is this still good ? could see what the installers I ask for quotes suggest..... as a side note, I decided to test the system and check the battery in the outside bell box.....this box is 27 years old ish and the battery is still functioning, just got to hang in till the upgrade....only trouble is, the plastic is a bit brittle and one of the retaining lugs broke off, so the box doesn’t fit quite as it should do.....kept making the tamper go off.....have jumpered the micro switch to bypass the tamper, for now.....but the keypad is showing the fault log....it’s all clear now and works fine, even changed the master code from default to my own one.....but no engineer code ??? so not sure how to clear this display, not that it matters, for when I enter the master code, it just asks me if I want to set the alarm or not.......just curious.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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