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jonkem

Wireless zone expander problem

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Hi everyone,

I've searched and searched for some info and you are my last hope!

I'm not an installer but was roped in to replacing an alarm system for a friend after he was burgled and it hadn't activated, no surprise once I started removing it but that's not why I'm asking for help. I have successfully wired several systems previously but strictly on a non commercial or professional basis.

 

I have installed a Honeywell Accenta G4 8 way panel, LCD RKP, 7 Pyronix dual tech PIRs, 2 x Deltabell Plus sounders, internal sounder & GSm Dialer all hardwired and all performing perfectly. I now have to add 3 x wireless Pyronix PIRs via a Pyronix UR2-WE expander on the last remaining spare zone. Can't hardwire these zones as there is no way through otherwise i'd daisy chain 3 onto 1 zone.

 

So the problem I have is either with the Pyronix UR2 installation instructions or with my brain! I've looked at the comic strip style manual for days now and still it makes no sense to me. 12+ & 0v are fine but it shows at least 6 other connections into the control panel from the UR2, arm, disarm, output a & b, fault output wiring, Can anyone tell me in simple terms which terminals in the G4 these should be connected into and why the manual is giving options for N/O & N/C on output & fault wiring?

 

It's no bother to run another 2 cores between the panel & UR2 if I need all 8.

 

I need to get this thing complete so I can move on to his CCTV system with 7 cameras!!!

 

Many thanks

Jon

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Pyronix wireless expander will only work with a pyronix panel

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But that unit is not a universal expander for the accents in the way you want to do 

 

How will it make your 8zone panel into more?

You may just get a couple of other Functions from it

 

1 minute ago, PeterJames said:

Pyronix wireless expander will only work with a pyronix panel

 

I thought you could use it as a remote arm and disarm feature as an add on to non pyronix because the panel learns that function and has outputs to do it?

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13 minutes ago, jonkem said:

Hi everyone,

I've searched and searched for some info and you are my last hope!

I'm not an installer but was roped in to replacing an alarm system for a friend after he was burgled and it hadn't activated, no surprise once I started removing it but that's not why I'm asking for help. I have successfully wired several systems previously but strictly on a non commercial or professional basis.

 

I have installed a Honeywell Accenta G4 8 way panel, LCD RKP, 7 Pyronix dual tech PIRs, 2 x Deltabell Plus sounders, internal sounder & GSm Dialer all hardwired and all performing perfectly. I now have to add 3 x wireless Pyronix PIRs via a Pyronix UR2-WE expander on the last remaining spare zone. Can't hardwire these zones as there is no way through otherwise i'd daisy chain 3 onto 1 zone.

 

So the problem I have is either with the Pyronix UR2 installation instructions or with my brain! I've looked at the comic strip style manual for days now and still it makes no sense to me. 12+ & 0v are fine but it shows at least 6 other connections into the control panel from the UR2, arm, disarm, output a & b, fault output wiring, Can anyone tell me in simple terms which terminals in the G4 these should be connected into and why the manual is giving options for N/O & N/C on output & fault wiring?

 

It's no bother to run another 2 cores between the panel & UR2 if I need all 8.

 

I need to get this thing complete so I can move on to his CCTV system with 7 cameras!!!

 

Many thanks

Jon

Either way cost of any unviersal device and the hassle to go with it , you should have upgraded the panel 

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2 minutes ago, al-yeti said:

But that unit is not a universal expander for the accents in the way you want to do 

 

How will it make your 8zone panel into more?

You may just get a couple of other Functions from it

 

 

I thought you could use it as a remote arm and disarm feature as an add on to non pyronix because the panel learns that function and has outputs to do it?

I meant as a zone expander 

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Pyronix state that it will connect to all makes of wired control panels with arm & disarm output.

 

The UR2 is hardwired into the last available zone on the panel and then you can add up to 10 wireless devices plus fobs if you want to. Of course they'll be seen as 1 zone by the panel but the UR2 sees them as individual ones.

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2 minutes ago, jonkem said:

Pyronix state that it will connect to all makes of wired control panels with arm & disarm output.

 

The UR2 is hardwired into the last available zone on the panel and then you can add up to 10 wireless devices plus fobs if you want to. Of course they'll be seen as 1 zone by the panel but the UR2 sees them as individual ones.

So you need to programme it to activate all zone devices to toggle one output , and that activates the zone 

 

Then I think arm disarm go to keyswitch if the pa el has it independent , if it does your zone maybe programmable to take that which means you lose the zones

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Connect output A on the UR2 (Com & N/C) to your last zone.

 

Then you need to connect your pos or neg to the Arm/Disarm ( C  terminal and set your dip switch to the same) from your panel to tell the UR2 you have set your panel.

This will bring the detectors out of sleep sort of mode and then you should get a output on the output A when devices are triggered.

Wire the output B (sorry fault output) with your global tamper to report tampers from your wireless devices.

 

Edited by Simlec

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Thank you Simlec, that's brilliant!

 

I probably confused matters by calling the UR2 an expander rather than a receiver but that's what I'm using it for.

 

Just to clarify the arm/disarm please, because I've assumed that I can use J3 output terminals from the G4 and is now the only issue after your clear instructions.

 

Do I need to connect a pos & neg to the arm & disarm terminals, And then set the jumper to suit the polarity I've chosen? And these inputs to the UR2 only become connected when the panel is armed?

 

If the above are correct assumptions, any idea which terminals in the G4 will supply these? It looks like the outputs at J3 are only active upon incident rather than just system set. There is a SET output at J6 that becomes positive on system set. And then can I assume I can run the neg to UR2 terminal C from the supply terminal in UR2. I'd then switch to pos arming.

 

Clear as mud I know!

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Ok looking at the G4 manual

Yes connect your (J3 coms) SET terminal to the UR2 ARM terminal & the 0v to 0v

Then set your DIP switch to 0v ARM

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I'll add an update just in case anyone else is going to use a UR2 for this purpose.

 

Thanks to simlec's input it's all up and running. Either SET terminal within the G4 panel can be used, J3 switches to neg & J9 shwitches to + upon arming so can be used to arm the UR2.

Make sure you run 8 core originally or you'll end up adding 2 cores!

 

UR2 is easy to set up once you've learnt to use their comic strip instructions.

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Just out of interest, how does the UR2 signal jamming, supervision, and battery notifications?


So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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All along the watchtower.. 

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Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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1 hour ago, datadiffusion said:

Just out of interest, how does the UR2 signal jamming, supervision, and battery notifications?

Probably needs another zone on the panel and another output , 

 

But then this geezer is stuck with what he put in 

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(Probably another 3 if we're going to argue:))

 

Just wondered as it has a 7 segment display, but not obvious from the spec exactly what this shows other than numerical zone activation (which I assume you can turn off).

Edited by datadiffusion

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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3 hours ago, datadiffusion said:

Just out of interest, how does the UR2 signal jamming, supervision, and battery notifications?

You have the tamper/fault output on the UR2 which you can put on a spare zone or wire in to the global tamper.

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18 minutes ago, Simlec said:

You have the tamper/fault output on the UR2 which you can put on a spare zone or wire in to the global tamper.

 

And wouldn't THAT be fun on an LED keypad panel at 2AM!


So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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44 minutes ago, datadiffusion said:

 

And wouldn't THAT be fun on an LED keypad panel at 2AM!

Still if you need upgrade great idea, bit they missed is a remote display or less or something

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Great idea if you have plenty of spare, programmable (+ pref. ability to be non-siren at 2AM 'technical' zones) IMHO.

 

For all the future hastle better off just upgrading panel to same as your wireless choice, can't be much extra by the time you've splashed out on devices + RX (I assume universal RX dearer than expander).

Doesn't the Euro Mini handle a single Pyronix expander?


So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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36 minutes ago, datadiffusion said:

For all the future hastle better off just upgrading panel to same as your wireless choice, can't be much extra by the time you've splashed out on devices + RX (I assume universal RX dearer than expander).

Doesn't the Euro Mini handle a single Pyronix expander?

 

46 or 280 endstation is about the same as his current controls & keypad

 

£60ish premium to do is the easy way...

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Mr:)

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Thank you for all the constructive comments, so glad I'm posting in the DIY section and not passing myself off as a professional installer.

 

Maybe it's because I'm posting in the DIY section that very few of you bothered to read the original post and instead try to show just how much more you know about alarms than someone posting in this section. Does it make you feel superior?

 

The simple system was installed, complete & working. What's more, every function it was capable of, was easy for the householder to operate, not confusing and didn't need a security installer to explain to him every few hours. Thousands and thousands G4 panels have been installed and the simple (not new) technology employed is tried & tested and when an intrusion occurs they make the bell sound. They are easy to install and easy to understand, Is there something wrong with that for a DIY'er?

 

The expansion into wireless, after the installation, was due to the householder not accepting any visible cables and there being no access through the 2 extensions added to the property since the previous non functioning system was installed. These new areas where never going to be included within the system originally so adapting the final available zone to wireless was the only available option that would save the newly installed panel. £44 for the UR2, so all you experts can tell me how much cheaper than that a new combined wired & wireless panel would be.

 

As simlec says, faults within the wireless zones will trigger a tamper within the wired panel, clearly shown on the LCD keypad and exactly the same as if there was a tamper on the hardwired system. Could a householder diagnose & rectify that at 2am?

The UR2 also displays the event history for alarm (inputs), tamper (inputs or UR2), low battery (inputs), supervision (inputs), disarm (UR2) & arm (UR2). Not easy for the householder to get the history but better than not having coverage in the whole property. In any case if he has a tamper alert he won't be working out what's caused it, he'll be calling me.

 

Once again thank you to simlec for your guidance.

 

 

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Jk

Do you fully accept liability for what you have done, or did you assume you have no liability cos you did your customer a favour.

Id agree that members (including myself) can say things some don't like to hear.

When you have an insurance company (not your client) sueing you for poor advice and or professional incompetence you might rethink.

But your happy with some of the comments made, unhappy with most it would appear. But it is those ones that will in hindsight be remembered.

 

just to be clear your clients insurance co will want to blame you for 'failure to perform', it wont be your client

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I find customers just love confusing sequences of flashing lights to indicate some arbitrary problem, anything from set fail to tamper, and pretty much hate such modern fangled nonsense like a keypad that accepts the devils tokens and speaks to them in plain English like some sort of electronic witch.

 

That said, maybe you're from Somerset too.

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So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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