Scantronic / Old System

[Spherehopper]

I'm a DIY installer just doing my own properties. I've installed three Veritas systems and decided I needed "something better" for the last house so went for the Premier. To be honest, as the pros here say, you need to know what you're doing. I found the Premier had a much steeper learning curve and most of the functions not applicable to a simple domestic install.

 

I've just moved house again and inherited a functioning Scantronic system but the house is about to undergo major renovation and rebuilding and was littered with remnants of at least two legacy systems and it was hard to know which cables were safe to cut. There were magnetic switches on every single door, PIRs in most rooms, pressure pads near several points of potential access and PAs in several places. Someone was keen to protect themselves.

 

I've done a factory reset, got myself an engineers code now, reconfigured the system and reinstated it. If I hadn't been able to work with the Scantronic 9752, I would have certainly bought another Veritas since I think the Premier is overkill for a simple domestic project.

 

The install of the original (1950's?) system was neat though, the cable sheaths were even stripped to pass every doorway so the cables wouldn't get trampled under the carpet.

 

The more recent (last two years) work was a lot more shoddy. A large local firm installed new pet friendly PIRs for previous owners. In testing/checking everything, I found two of them poorly mounted (single screw fixing), 10mm cable inlet holes drilled big enough for a tarantula to crawl into and wires trapped between case and lid on the PIR when it had been closed up after fitting.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by datadiffusion
New thread created - please don't bump unrelated topics - thanks!

[datadiffusion]

Probably more 80s than 50s. And just as shoddy as the later work IMHO, no excuse for joints like this, or unsheathed cables running across open boards, ever. Junction boxes cost 80p.

Edited April 6, 2017 by datadiffusion

[Spherehopper]

3 hours ago, datadiffusion said:

Probably more 80s than 50s. And just as shoddy as the later work IMHO, no excuse for joints like this, or unsheathed cables running across open boards, ever. Junction boxes cost 80p.

 

I am surprised that the staples didn't end up breaking through and shorting out some cores. The previous owner had a history of spurious alarms looking through the invoice file. One particularly troublesome zone had been set (or left in) 00 (unused) after they had been billed for the installation of half a dozen new "pet friendly" PIRs. As far as I know, none of this older wiring was used in the current set up although there could have been hidden joints somewhere.

 

In any case, anything (phones/alarm) that was buried in walls/unknown routing etc was replaced when we had all the boards up hence discovering later poor workmanship as well.

 

The house was owned by same couple from the 1950s to mid 2000s so could have been a 1980s install as you say.

[goncall]

possibly an old pressure mat hence the joints when system was upgraded ,cable seems in good condition considering the age not rough at all was normal in those days 

[james.wilson]

agreed it was, I assume the white wires are going to something. they were soldered then

[norman]

Had an aquisition in my old patch that did loads of this, tbf they often spotted a 20mm hole in the boards and tucked it down there, every older system had loads of internal doors and mats usually on the 3rd step and near the lounge windows. Looked after loads of 20-25 year old (then) systems. 

[goncall]

Solder joints and sheath it's got a group 4 look about it

[james.wilson]

tube and wire was best but who would have it now?

[goncall]

3 minutes ago, james.wilson said:

tube and wire was best but who would have it now?

Snap wire over viper on fx? I'd say snap wire is fa free

[Spherehopper]

1 hour ago, james.wilson said:

I assume the white wires are going to something. they were soldered then

 

Yes, to magnetic door switches that were mounted about 2" off the ground on almost all internal doors. The doors with magnets in them long gone before I bought the house (and that's another story since they had ripped out old what must have been inch and 5/8ths thick doors (close to 44mm) and replaced them with nasty cheap 35mm pine doors that never fitted the frames properly. I have since replaced them with 35mm oak veneered doors and, not wanting to use fire doors everywhere, fitted a 9mm square section inside every frame so the doors meet up properly when closed.

 

Anyhow, back to alarms ...

[james.wilson]

1 minute ago, goncall said:

Snap wire over viper on fx? I'd say snap wire is fa free

agree

[MrHappy]

 

3 hours ago, Spherehopper said:

was replaced when we had all the boards up hence discovering later poor workmanship as well.

 

when the alarm was done in 80's it was very unusual to gut & completely redo a house in one hit.

 

the cable skinned across the door way would be so it wouldn't be seen under a thinning carpet, the soldiered joints where quite nicely done

 

its probably given decades of service...

 

If you've the budget to have all the boards up & replace all the doors, why haven't you got £150 for decent controls ?

 

[james.wilson]

you know the answer h, spent on a new iPhone. will keep the 18yr old alarm running then complain its shite when it finally curls it toes

[datadiffusion]

That kind of jointing might be normal, and I've seen it lots, but running bare cores any distance, normal, really? Blimey.

[MrHappy]

1 hour ago, datadiffusion said:

but running bare cores any distance, normal, really? Blimey.

 

it either been skinned to lay flatter or the outer insulation has been damaged then removed ?

 

who knows, subscriber might have complained about a bump in the carpet & this was the solution ?

 

Its appear to have been in place sometime...

 

 

[norman]

An ex engineer I used to work with used to rout the boards when they posed a problem... probably quicker to lift or fish.

[Spherehopper]

On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:24 PM, MrHappy said:

If you've the budget to have all the boards up & replace all the doors, why haven't you got £150 for decent controls ?

 

What would you suggest? I don't see any problem using decent electronics that are working fine. A new battery, all tests fine, it's probably half way through it's life. The Scantronic box seems perfectly adequate. Why blow £150 for no reason?

[al-yeti]

So what panel is it you have? Picture?

[Spherehopper]

22 hours ago, james.wilson said:

you know the answer h, spent on a new iPhone. will keep the 18yr old alarm running then complain its ***** when it finally curls it toes

 

I think you misread me. What's an iPhone? (born 1958, an iphobe if not a technophobe). What I dislike is wasting money. Reusing my existing gear, tweaked to what I need it to do is surely being "green". If it "curls it's toes" then I shall replace it with a new panel. Whilst it works and does the job I need, then why change?

[Spherehopper]

2 minutes ago, al-yeti said:

So what panel is it you have? Picture?

 

Scantronic 9752

 

 

[al-yeti]

22 hours ago, james.wilson said:

you know the answer h, spent on a new iPhone. will keep the 18yr old alarm running then complain its ***** when it finally curls it toes

You telling me you don't keep old systems than this one on the books?

 

Amazes me that some on here do, but then like most companies why put new controls in if nothing in it, but then even with on going contracts no new controls lol 

[MrHappy]

9 hours ago, Spherehopper said:

 

What would you suggest? I don't see any problem using decent electronics that are working fine. A new battery, all tests fine, it's probably half way through it's life. The Scantronic box seems perfectly adequate. Why blow £150 for no reason?

 

You was moaning your scantronic didn't silence & reset off the r/r input on the stu footprint ?

 

Its old tat, if you wish to diy support it then its your choice,

 

Your GSM things looks look "chinky ebay special", this one they claim is "grade 2" 

 

https://www.controlfreqgsm.com/collections/2g-and-3g-gsm-alarm-auto-diallers/products/gsm-alarm-auto-dialler-compatible-with-all-alarm-systems-and-sensors#.WOihC7g6BrM

 

I'd suspect its not

 

[Spherehopper]

Thanks for your continued help Mr H. I'm not bothered about it being graded since all I need it to do is SMS a handful of people to notify them of an alarm which is all monitoring would do. I don't have much confidence in my local police responding to a call for a second activation notified by the ARC so I'd rather take the risk myself rather than spend £500 a year. I strongly believe that 99% of the alarm is a deterrent in any case.

 

The module could well be made in China but it has the support of a pucka UK company and has not caused any issues.

 

The rr issue was not a fault but me verbalising a difference between Texecom and Scantronic products. All sorted now using "method b". As for spending £150, I still don't see why since the new equivalent of this panel costs £60 and I'm sure it's still the bread and butter of all the major and national firms for the average domestic install.

 

I'm grateful that the pros are willing to give advice on here as it's always good to see things from another perspective rather than simply a collection of detectors, panel and keypad.

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Spherehopper

[al-yeti]

1 hour ago, MrHappy said:

 

You was moaning your scantronic didn't silence & reset off the r/r input on the stu footprint ?

 

Its old tat, if you wish to diy support it then its your choice,

 

Your GSM things looks look "chinky ebay special", this one they claim is "grade 2" 

 

https://www.controlfreqgsm.com/collections/2g-and-3g-gsm-alarm-auto-diallers/products/gsm-alarm-auto-dialler-compatible-with-all-alarm-systems-and-sensors#.WOihC7g6BrM

 

I'd suspect its not

 

Not many will spend that much

39 minutes ago, Spherehopper said:

Thanks for your continued help Mr H. I'm not bothered about it being graded since all I need it to do is SMS a handful of people to notify them of an alarm which is all monitoring would do. I don't have much confidence in my local police responding to a call for a second activation notified by the ARC so I'd rather take the risk myself rather than spend £500 a year. I strongly believe that 99% of the alarm is a deterrent in any case.

 

The module could well be made in China but it has the support of a pucka UK company and has not caused any issues.

 

The rr issue was not a fault but me verbalising a difference between Texecom and Scantronic products. All sorted now using "method b". As for spending £150, I still don't see why since the new equivalent of this panel costs £60 and I'm sure it's still the bread and butter of all the major and national firms for the average domestic install.

 

I'm grateful that the pros are willing to give advice on here as it's always good to see things from another perspective rather than simply a collection of detectors, panel and keypad.

 

So what dialler you got 

[MrHappy]

40 minutes ago, Spherehopper said:

Thanks for your continued help Mr H. I'm not bothered about it being graded since all I need it to do is SMS a handful of people to notify them of an alarm which is all monitoring would do. I don't have much confidence in my local police responding to a call for a second activation notified by the ARC so I'd rather take the risk myself rather than spend £500 a year.

 

 

The risk of SMS signalling is the messages being being delayed or lost, After head aches with subscribers failing to manage sims / credit, network outage, claims of not signalling... it does'nt have a proper a audit trail it so it not really suitable for a security system

 

With a URN the police attend on a confirmed intruder, however the keyholders are also meant to attend & not solely rely on a police attendance as its prioritised on their work load.

 

Last month-

 

1 genuine break in burglars in a factory, they left with £60 of pretty cash before keyholder & police attended

1 rat chewing a cable to produce an alarm & then a tamper within a confirmation window

 

Both attended by the police.