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Whats wrong with Yale?


fatman

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Hi all,

 

New to the Forums, so apologies if in wring section; mods please move if needed.

 

There's lots of posts slating Yale products, but I can't understand why? Is it because they are ungraded? Or is there another reason I should know (I have one myself!).

 

Sorry if this is a basic question. I searched, but could find nothing saying why they were bad, just that they are!

 

Thanks in advance.

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45 minutes ago, james.wilson said:

Thanks for replying and providing the link.

 

I did have a read; it was mainly referring to the old Yale systems being problematic due to low frequency.

 

I have the 'Easy fit' telecommunicating alarm which uses the same frequency as the Pyronix Enforcer, so I feel a little better now ;)

Thanks again for the info.

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1 minute ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

Frequency is only the transmission, security not related there.

Oh :/

Sorry I must have misunderstood! As I'm sure you can tell, I am not very knowledgeable about Alarms - in fact, I didn't know there was so much to Alarms until I recently found this Forum! But I am finding it all very interesting!

So, sorry to be such a noob but if the frequency isn't the issue with security; please can you explain what is?

 

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9 minutes ago, fatman said:

Thanks for replying and providing the link.

 

I did have a read; it was mainly referring to the old Yale systems being problematic due to low frequency.

 

I have the 'Easy fit' telecommunicating alarm which uses the same frequency as the Pyronix Enforcer, so I feel a little better now ;)

Thanks again for the info.

Blagger 

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19 minutes ago, fatman said:

 please can you explain what is?

 

 

Well for starters I believe it is one way wireless. This means the device (your sensor) transmits a message with the hope it gets there (the panel), it may or may not.

I also believed the encryption of the signals was either flawed or none existent on these DIY kits?

One way is only suited for very very low risk, many installers refuse to install it at all.

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7 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

 

Well for starters I believe it is one way wireless. This means the device (your sensor) transmits a message with the hope it gets there (the panel), it may or may not.

I also believed the encryption of the signals was either flawed or none existent on these DIY kits?

One way is only suited for very very low risk, many installers refuse to install it at all.

Thanks for this really helpful post. I appreciate the explanation too.

This makes much more sense now so thanks again.

I'm moving house soon, and there is already a wired system in, so I I can get that services and it is working ok, I think I will use that instead!

Sorry for another basic question, but would a two way alarm communication between panel and accessories confirming system armed?

Can't give 'kudos' on my Mobile for some reason, but will do when on a PC!

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On a two way system the detectors and control panel communicate with each other, the detector knows when the system is armed therefore they dont transmit detected movement when the system is unset. Two way control panels can also randomly pole the detection and if it does not receive a reply it knows it is missing. Some one way systems do have poling but this is initiated by the detector and the control panel is expecting a pole from each of the detectors within a set time period normally 24 or 12 hours. Sometimes with one way systems two detectors pole at the same time which makes the panel think that it is being compromised, or it just does not recognise the poling and goes into pole failure. I dont believe the Yale system poles at all, meaning that the panel would not know at all if the detector was missing.  

 

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11 hours ago, PeterJames said:

On a two way system the detectors and control panel communicate with each other, the detector knows when the system is armed therefore they dont transmit detected movement when the system is unset. Two way control panels can also randomly pole the detection and if it does not receive a reply it knows it is missing. Some one way systems do have poling but this is initiated by the detector and the control panel is expecting a pole from each of the detectors within a set time period normally 24 or 12 hours. Sometimes with one way systems two detectors pole at the same time which makes the panel think that it is being compromised, or it just does not recognise the poling and goes into pole failure. I dont believe the Yale system poles at all, meaning that the panel would not know at all if the detector was missing.  

 

Many thanks for this informative reply, I really appreciate it.

I now feel like I know the flaws of these types of systems, and think when I move house I will switch to a decent Wired one.

 

Thanks again to all the really helpful replies.

 

I've been unable to give anybody 'kudos' which I thought was because I was using the Mobile Site, but I'm on a PC and still can;t, so I'm guessing it is because I'm new?

 

Either way many thanks for the replies everyone :)

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  • 2 months later...

We've just published a blog about why these alarms are not great. Stick with graded wireless or wired if possible. If you look on my personal site, you can see what I think of the various systems.

 

https://www.pentestpartners.com/blog/alarm-systems-alarmingly-insecure-oh-the-irony/

 

The short of it - easy to jam, easy to replay disarm signals, you can sniff the PIN over-the-air if you use a remote keypad, you can brute-force the PIN as well. I reported these issues to Yale 4 years ago.

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I have a blog, some of which is about alarm security and reverse engineering:
http://cybergibbons.com/

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, cybergibbons said:

30 years ago alarms were all hard wired, with discrete components, and operated by key switches. 20 years ago, they have evolved to use microcontrollers, LCDs and keypads, but were still hard wired. 10 years ago, wireless alarms started to become common, along with bags of added functionality.

 

a radio alarm from 25 ish yrs ago-]

 

$_57.JPG

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Mr? Veritas God

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On 6/29/2016 at 0:36 PM, cybergibbons said:

We've just published a blog about why these alarms are not great. Stick with graded wireless or wired if possible. If you look on my personal site, you can see what I think of the various systems.

 

https://www.pentestpartners.com/blog/alarm-systems-alarmingly-insecure-oh-the-irony/

 

The short of it - easy to jam, easy to replay disarm signals, you can sniff the PIN over-the-air if you use a remote keypad, you can brute-force the PIN as well. I reported these issues to Yale 4 years ago.

Many thanks for the reply and for posting the link. Apologies for delayed response, I've not had access to my E-Mail for a while so didn't get the notification.

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