bennynoneck Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 And I am very grateful for all the info thanks. It's nice to be able to confer with pro's. How much would this install cost if I had the mains connection ready and ran all the cable in advance? Kit 1 with a wired bell and maybe one or two wired pirs? Just a rough quote mind u. That's to supply the equipment and install with no need to run any cable. No comma though as I think that's too expensive at the mo. Or is that an inherently stupid question that can't be answered without a site visit? I'm just wondering whether or not I could afford it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 8core for everything , except where you need more then a "bigger" one ie more cores Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie6 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 "...but surely a £300 alarm is better than no alarm. A Yale would be better than nothing.."  Around the £300 mark should get you everything you need and don't concern yourself with cable size, but don't buy 'unbranded' cheap cable, and it doesn't need to be CQR branded, there are lots of branded cables out there. Usually, a warning device uses five (sometimes six) connections..it is wise to use a cable with more cores than you actually need so eight core is about right. You don't need anyone to check your work, that's just defeating the object of keeping the costs down, just follow the instructions and make good cable connections. Observe my notes on signal attenuation when fitting wireless, for example, a signal is attenuated by one brick wall, it is attenuated even more if there are two brick walls between the device and panel. If your neighbour is happy having the panel in a cupboard or under the stairs and not getting wireless faults then give it a try if you want. You could also be a bit nosey with your neighbour's system to get a few tips there. Yale sell thousands of alarm systems, and I doubt that they are having thousands of fault calls, the fault, when it occurs, is due to poor positioning of devices and internal and external influences, installed correctly you should have very few problems with a Yale, if any, I have cleared up many problems with badly positioned devices on both Yale and Micromark. Not particularly fussy on some of their solar powered warning devices, try to avoid them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) but don't buy 'unbranded' cheap cable, and it doesn't need to be CQR branded, there are lots of branded cables out there.  ...and most of them are cheap CCA like the rest.  There are few remaining quality brands of copper cable, so forget the 'brand' look for the words '100% copper' and avoid 'CCA'  Most cables on ebay, all the alarm cable from cpc, screwfix, toolstation etc... are CCA (Copper Coated Aluminium) so be forewarned! Edited September 1, 2015 by datadiffusion Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 ...and most of them are cheap CCA like the rest. There are few remaining quality brands of copper cable, so forget the 'brand' look for the words '100% copper' and avoid 'CCA' Most cables on ebay, all the alarm cable from cpc, screwfix, toolstation etc... are CCA (Copper Coated Aluminium) so be forewarned! Excellent advice. Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie6 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hello Benny, I am checking out the cable distributors thoughts on their particular brands and apparently they conform to a European standard and despite not being copper in total (the cores are aluminium with a copper coating) they reach the standard of 10 ohms at 100 metres, which is more than adequate for a domestic property..so, no worries on branded there. I should imagine that you would be paying a great deal more for solid copper (keeping the costs down)but it's your choice at the end of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Hello Benny, I am checking out the cable distributors thoughts on their particular brands and apparently they conform to a European standard and despite not being copper in total (the cores are aluminium with a copper coating) they reach the standard of 10 ohms at 100 metres, which is more than adequate for a domestic property..so, no worries on branded there. I should imagine that you would be paying a great deal more for solid copper (keeping the costs down)but it's your choice at the end of the day. thats not correct there is a bs std now for cable, en does not have a cable std Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Suspect confusion of EN with CE marking. Any old tat easily attains a CE mark, especially when self certified funny enough... Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I might try this self cert route Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennynoneck Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Sorry just one more question. I'm probably being thick and naive but I can't see anything in the following off about the 48w having any wired zones:?Thanks all once again! Edited September 2, 2015 by MrHappy link removed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Last 48w i fitted had 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Try the Elite version...  http://www.texe.com/uk/uploads/PremierElite_48-W_LIT.pdf Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennynoneck Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Thanks. And thanks for the quick replies. Gives me a lot of things to mull over. Now I just need to look at placement of pirs on my place. Every bloody corner looks out onto a window or a rad or is somewhere near a rad lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie6 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hello Benny, "..thats not correct there is a bs std now for cable, en does not have a cable std.." whatever, just go with the information from the manufacturers as mentioned previously..it's no big deal as long as you have 10ohms @ 100mtrs the rest may be viewed by most people as 'nit picking'... but it's up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) CCA cable is harder to work with, as it often has a cheaper and less flexible outer jacket, often poor quality, and prone to being fragile at terminations as aluminium is.  OP, do yourself a favour and spend a couple more pounds - that's all it is - on quality, copper cable. You won't regret it! Edited September 2, 2015 by datadiffusion Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Hello Benny, "..thats not correct there is a bs std now for cable, en does not have a cable std.." whatever, just go with the information from the manufacturers as mentioned previously..it's no big deal as long as you have 10ohms @ 100mtrs the rest may be viewed by most people as 'nit picking'... but it's up to you. Â Buy cheap, Buy twice. With something like cable it's not going to be easy to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Nah, should be easy to rip it all out of the plaster! Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 "...but surely a £300 alarm is better than no alarm. A Yale would be better than nothing.." Really?? A system that is prone to false alarms is likely to go off regularly, so what happens with a system that is always making a nuisance of itself. It gets ignored, or the end user stops using it. Rubbish systems poorly installed give burglar alarms a bad press in general.  Cheap cable is not a good idea when you are considering something that is designed to protect your property. As a professional installer the last thing we want is anything that can cause any sort of unreliability, we would always recommend DIYers to do the same  I am sure you would say the same about CCTV surely a cheap CCTV system is better than no CCTV system. My thoughts are that a cheap CCTV system is no better than a dummy camera. A cheap CCTV system will only tell you what you already know.   The Bitterness of Poor Quality remains Long after the Sweetness of Low Price is Forgotten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QSXS Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 CCA cable is harder to work with, as it often has a cheaper and less flexible outer jacket, often poor quality, and prone to being fragile at terminations as aluminium is.  OP, do yourself a favour and spend a couple more pounds - that's all it is - on quality, copper cable. You won't regret it! I disagree that's is less flexible, I would say it more flexible in the terms of (SOFT), the Sheath tends to be thinner, Wire insulation thinner and Wire is more more fragile. There is also OK. CCA and **** CCA, if you must buy CCA, get CQR CCA. As DD says,  Just spend the extra fiver on proper copper, it much more robust and forgiving.(As DD), You only need one roll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennynoneck Posted September 2, 2015 Author Share Posted September 2, 2015 Any tips on where to get the cable? Im in Essex so theres lots of places hearby tucked away in trading estates no doubt. Any eecent electrical wholsalers? Ive looked online but most tehd to be tinned annealed copper. Im very grateful that u continue to be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 cqr full copper cable Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Any tips on where to get the cable? Im in Essex so theres lots of places hearby tucked away in trading estates no doubt. Any eecent electrical wholsalers? Ive looked online but most tehd to be tinned annealed copper. Im very grateful that u continue to be helpful. You could try electrical wholesalers, or ADI gardners or Enterprise or Security warehouse online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) But bear in mind most electrical places will only sell cca or not even know. Note that 'Tinned Annealed Copper Conductors' is fine, i.e copper. Its cca or any mention of aluminium, or no mention at all, you need to avoid. Tlc Direct appear to claim 'Tinned Annealed Copper Conductors'. Branches in your area. Edited September 2, 2015 by datadiffusion Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie6 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Forget these posts they are just confusing you, go out and buy a reel of cable and get cracking on your install. Bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Im assuming that all that read this forum will realise that is poor advice. Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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