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Diy Alarm System Install Questions


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Hi,

 

I've been reading this forum for a while now and am impressed. The level of help for DIYers is very good. :thumbsup:

 

I'm a DIYer who made the ultimate mistake! I re-wired the whole house (all overseen and signed off, don't worry!), completely re-plumbed, had ceilings down, moved walls, plastered everything etc, and only then thought about installing an alarm. A complete nupty mistake, but there you go. Something to remember for next time.

 

Anyway, my parents got burgled a few months ago and co-inidentally my next door had an alarm put in around the same time. These are what got me thinking about putting an alarm in. I have a budget of around £300 (ish!). Thanks to Cyber Gibbon's blog, I've avoided buying the Yale system I had in mind.

 

You can guess what Im going to say - I want a predominately wireless alarm and have narrowed it down to <yawn> either a Pyronix Enforcer or a Texecom Richocet as these look the most secure.

 

However, I really don't like the look of the Enforcer's all-in-one panel, so currently am going for the Texecom with the blank end station and the keypad.

 

Thanks to the layout of the house (mainly flat roofs at the front and back), I am not prepared to retrospectively put wired sensors in these areas so need a wireless system. However, I have found a conceilable route to get upstairs to install a wired bell box. I can use this access to put a few PIR wired sensors upstairs as well.

 

My main questions for the moment, if you can please indulge me, are:

 

1) Does the Texecom Premier Elite panel have space for a any wired zones, or would I have to buy an additional add-on to do this?

 

2) Without wading through all the literature, does one of the comms add-ons for the Texecom panel allow for wireless connection to the internet to alert me and control the panel (remote arm and disarm)? I don't have particularly good mobile signal here and running phone line cable is just another hassle (although minor I know!).

 

3) My property has a concrete ground floor so the first floor suspended timber floor is quite busy with electrical cabling. For the bell box (and any hard-wired sensors I can get in on the first floor), I'll need to run a very short amount through the floor near the existing wiring. Will this present a problem, or is interference only really a problem when run in parallel for a decent length?

 

4) Am I missing any other alarm manufacturers? I want two-way wireless for security.

 

5) Can alarm cable run together okay? They don't interfere with each other (in a manner of speaking!)?

 

That's about it for the moment. Thanks very much for any help. I'm still picking up the lingo so bear with me, but am finding it all quite interesting!

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1, yes it has 8 hard wired circuits

2, dont know dont know it well

3, ideally you need to keep at least 6" away from power cable, this is mainly for safety as alarm cable is rated at 50v not 600v

4, for diy id recommend the texecom as they will support you, some equipement is limited to professionals only so you cant buy it anyway

5, yes

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I would look at the Texecom 48-W Kit2, should fit in your budget.

http://www.texe.com/uk/products/series/wireless-kits/premier-elite-series/

The Panel supports 48 Zones.

I think there is 4 Hard writeable zones in the Main Panel + 2 More in the Keypad (RKP)

Richocet is 2 way wireless and builds connections on a Mesh network.

It will also support Wifi with a module CEK-0001 Premier Elite ComWiFi 

The only concern I would have is over the programming.

These are a pro grade system, There is a lot of options and setting to get your head around.

Edited by QSXS
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Come on.... Means the word should be sensored.

Ok in the small space you have, you could run two 8cores up to serve the sensors and bellbox upstairs

And wireless elsewhere , or depending on how close panel is to front door sometimes you can get an 8core to the front door , especially if it's in the understair cupboard

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As for keeping cables apart, it not so much for Electrical Insulation, both Mains and alarm wire are double insulated. 

Its to reduce electromagnetic interference by inductive coupling, which could cause false alarms, but it is rarely an issue in IMO.,unless you have some big high current items on the end of the circuits.

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3, ideally you need to keep at least 6" away from power cable, this is mainly for safety as alarm cable is rated at 50v not 600v

 

they are double insulated but is for mechanical protection not for em protection, 

The voltages you quote are the working voltages, the actual insulation voltage for 1.0mmT&E would be >7KV,  The only time safety comes into play, is if the insulation was damaged.

Say you pass them though the same hole in a joist, then put a screw through them, the panel is not going to like it. But the alarm cable outer insulation alone should be good for 300V.

The Double insulation is for both Electrical Insulation and Mechanical Protection. Screening will help with RF Immunity, but not inductive coupling.

Inductive coupling is best solved by Distance, Twisted Pairs or Steel Conduit.

Edited by QSXS
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id disagree you run any cable close then voltage will be induced, screening it will dump that induced voltage to earth before it can induce into the cores.

Twisted pair using a balanced signal allows for induced noise to be mitigated and in effect ignored, does not mean it isnt there.

Agree on working voltage but not sure if 7kv would be ok on t&e

 

ie 2kv ac will arc at about 1.5mm in air

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I have a budget of around £300 (ish!). Thanks to Cyber Gibbon's blog, I've avoided buying the Yale system I had in mind.

 

 

I'm (we are?) very pleased you avoided the Yale.

 

But did you spot that some of the Yale kits retail for more than £300. And we still consider them junk.

 

How much did you spend on your car, flatscreen TV, ipod / iphone, SKY membership, gym membership last year?

 

Did your house cost £3000 - if it did then spending a tenth of that on security would seem fair. £30,000? One hundredth on protecting the biggest asset you own?

£300,000 - doesn't £300 seem like a very small amount to spend, when there is little we would recommend for that price (for the whole house anyway).

 

The best I would recommend is a 'starter kit' at around your budget and adding everything else as soon as you are able.

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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Datadiffusion,

I try to justify this to customers, but it just does not register.

The only time the consumer starts to take security seriously is after they have been burgled or a close friend.

Lets say the average professional alarm cost £800 - £1000, Its still only 0.5% of a £200K house.

Spending £35/M for 24 Month on a IPhone, no one even see it as an issues, even if they have very little money,

Most Gym Memberships get paid and people do not even go.

The Alarm is a one off cost that will last many years + Small Maintenance and Monitoring fee if taken.

The consumer also misses the additional benefits of the risk assessment and advise on Better Locks, Security Lighting, Fencing etc.

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cheers for all the quick replies. I'll try and answer a few things, in no particular order:

 

1) I have upgraded my locks to 3 star ABS Avocets (hence why I'm broke) and a few other measures as well.

 

2) I would be quite happy to add to the system over time, but can't do this at the moment. I can't afford or justify £1000 outlay on an alarm, and I'm the only one who can know this with any degree on authority on this I'm afraid. But I'm not going to get into all that. I know you are coming from a different perspective as you are all in the trade, but surely a £300 alarm is better than no alarm. A Yale would be better than nothing, surely, unless it actively helps intruders?? Is the Texecom not a good unit?

 

3) Yes it is somewhat of a grudge purchase. I would rather spend my money on something else, but know that I should probably get one. Doesn't mean I can't have a bit of fun with it!

 

4) I was actually looking at getting kit 1, and putting a wired bell in, But yes, it seems to be very reasonably priced and specced almost for me (apart from the lack of alerting me). A wired bell, some cable, a couple of wired PIRs, and this kit all seems very appealing, However, someone said they would be concerned that this is a pro grade system and the programming might be an issue. I understand this and agree. Is there anything else out there that might be a bit easier? The Pyronix gets decent reviews in this area I think, although I don't think they do one with a separate keypad.

 

5) I don't have SKY or a gym membership I'm afraid. Does Netflix count?

 

6) So when you are a running a cabled alarm in a house, do you really avoid all other cables coming anywhere near? Surely you're going to run near at some point when a cable runs the other way to a lighting cable in the loft etc? I'm not bitching, I'm honestly purely wondering!

 

cheers again. Much appreciated.

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As you can see Benny, James has covered all the points in your post quite comprehensively, please do not hesitate to post again if you need further clarification on any matters that may require the experts advice!.

Edited by Rulland
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cheers for all the quick replies. I'll try and answer a few things, in no particular order:

 

1) I have upgraded my locks to 3 star ABS Avocets (hence why I'm broke) and a few other measures as well.

 

2)Is the Texecom not a good unit?

 

3) Yes it is somewhat of a grudge purchase. I would rather spend my money on something else, but know that I should probably get one. Doesn't mean I can't have a bit of fun with it!

 

4) I was actually looking at getting kit 1, and putting a wired bell in, But yes, it seems to be very reasonably priced and specced almost for me (apart from the lack of alerting me). A wired bell, some cable, a couple of wired PIRs, and this kit all seems very appealing, However, someone said they would be concerned that this is a pro grade system and the programming might be an issue. I understand this and agree. Is there anything else out there that might be a bit easier? The Pyronix gets decent reviews in this area I think, although I don't think they do one with a separate keypad.

 

6) So when you are a running a cabled alarm in a house, do you really avoid all other cables coming anywhere near? Surely you're going to run near at some point when a cable runs the other way to a lighting cable in the loft etc? I'm not bitching, I'm honestly purely wondering!

 

1. Good choice.

2. Yes Texecom are a very good unit. You will be purchasing a EN50131 Grade 2 System, The wireless also meets this standard.

3. You will get over it.

4. Kit 1 is fine.

You can purchase a COM2400 for a SMS Notification or Speech Dialler.

(Note: this statement usually releases a few worms from the can) But as you are on a budget, you can find a Com2400 on ebay for £15, (Just be informed, Its not a monitored connection and has reports of reliability issues.) Although improved if you use the Opentelecom gateway. But you get what you pay for..

I mentioned the Programming Issues. The Texecom is a very powerful and flexible system with hundreds of settings.

I do not know your background, but if you are prepared to RTM and Play about, there is no reason you should not get it working.

6. In your application, do not worry about it. I mean, do not run them in parallel or tape alarm cables to mains cables but crossing over, passing through the same hole etc, will be fine.

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Is there anything else out there that might be a bit easier? The Pyronix gets decent reviews in this area I think, although I don't think they do one with a separate keypad.

 

Yes, you can add a RKP to the Enforcer, but I can not help you with other Enforcer Questions as I have never used one.

I do believe they are simpler to setup. Check out youtube: Type "pyronix enforcer" Pyronix have some install videos, but it seems that do not have a lot to say about them, appears no one a Pyronix is able to talk!, but the music is nice..

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".....So when you are a running a cabled alarm in a house, do you really avoid all other cables coming anywhere near? Surely you're going to run near at some point when a cable runs the other way to a lighting cable in the loft etc? I'm not bitching, I'm honestly purely wondering!..."

I would reccomend a parallel distance of a minimum of 30 centimetres (1 foot). Do not run cables on joists immediately above a fluorescent light. Cables may pass across mains but not parallel. Avoid spurring off the kitchen ring main for the control panel (possible problems with fridge freezer motors etc)..if you are qualified run a new fuse at the consumer unit. Attempt to keep the receiver as high as possible from the ground.It is not advisable to mount a wireless panel 'under the stairs' or in a 'closet' or 'cupboard' or in a basement. Observe the fact that foil backed plasterboard, brick walls, large wall mirrors, boilers, central heating pipe clusters, mains cable clusters, each attenuate the signal. Avoid placing a pir on a wall immediately behind a television set, keep the detectors at least one metre from similar devices. Avoid connecting into the mains where a floodlight is known..Attempt to position the receiver in a central position with regard to the transmitters..carry out a fabric test, although normal plasterboard would attenuate far less than concrete..Plan the system with several drawings and notes before commencing the installation.

You say you want a message to your mobile..that's fair enough.. How far away from the property will you be when your mobile informs you of an intruder...or do you have decent neighbours who look out for your interests.

Edited by charlie6
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Thanks all!

Perhaps I'll take the plunge with it then. It would be easier to get the wireless bell version but next door was told that a wired one was far superior. Mind u they also run under the carpet and drilled through the stairs save having to lift any boards.

They got a risco by the way.

Do instructions tend to give detailed instructions about cable size etc when installing or does it leave to your own interpretation? Ie does it specify 1mm or 1.5mm t&e or not say anything?

I was gong to put the panel under the stairs!!! That's where next doors is and where the only neat install would be.

I dont suppose that in theory any of u would be happy if a member of the public asked u to check over their own install?

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You said you have small cable access, run two if you can , or a "bigger cable" ideally an 8core for the bell and "bigger cable" for the sensors upstairs , try and buy cable made by cqr , probably other manufacturers to,

I think that is what you should start with, if the cables don't get in then you can opt for buying different equipment

Edited by al-yeti
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I have already posted a lot of help on here for free, but I would check it, advise you, and help you program it, but for a fee.

There is little point in spending  hundreds on an alarm, then not have it work correctly because of poor installation or Programming.

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