SparkyUK Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Hi guys, I've just received a bunch of these units for a job and wondered, can you learn the Ricochet devices before going on site? I am aware that the system wants you to learn each device, starting with the closest device to the panel first. However, if I configure these at the office in that way, set all the zones and routes, then the install should be quicker. I've already done a site survey so am aware of where each sensor will be situated but wondered if while the devices are learning what routes they can take, if this would be a hinderance, rather than a time-saver, when I install it all. It's not a big deal if it shouldn't be done this way, but wondered what the issues would be (if any), of powering it all down and shipping on site, to power it back up again. Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 No reason why not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I thought they needed to know the install layout to work out the mesh, that can only be done once in situ? dont use it so dont know the detail i could be way off Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 That was my concern, although I wasn't sure if the learning process would be part of the routing setup or if the devices constantly learnt their route back to the panel. The manual states to learn them before you install them in their final position, and then you leave them for 20 minutes to setup the route. If I cannot learn them and code them up before going on site (and the device then learning it's route) then I'll just wait until on site to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwillis Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I don't use the gear either but I'd just learn it on site once fitted. From what others have said in the past if the stuff isn't learnt properly it causes faults and can be a nightmare , you could end up causing yourself more greif by trying to do it before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) No problem, just make sure they are walk tested when in final positions. A walk test puts them back into the system properly after a downpower. Edited April 15, 2015 by breff Quote The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 So I can configure the system, code up the zones and users and then power down and take on site. Once installed into their positions a walk test will allow the mesh to establish? I would obviously observe the learning in order (for where they will be situated). How long can they be powered down for? It may be a couple of days between each install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adi Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 As above, you enroll them at the keypad anyway, it won't know if this is on site or in the office, but personally i'd do it on site. Quote I really can't be ar**** with it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 We never learn anything on-site, all done pre-install All of our Ricochet systems are pre-configured at the office to the design spec in advance Arrive on site, install it as usual, Pop it in commission mode for half hour or so, Walk test it and away you go. Sort your paperwork out and jobs a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 15, 2015 Author Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) We never learn anything on-site, all done pre-install All of our Ricochet systems are pre-configured at the office to the design spec in advance Arrive on site, install it as usual, Pop it in commission mode for half hour or so, Walk test it and away you go. Sort your paperwork out and jobs a good one This is what I was thinking. I've done the site survey already, have planned the install, so thought I could in effect build the system up before I go. Then power down and ship out the kit to be sited. I think my concern was wondering if the 15/20 mins you're meant to leave the network to establish would mean the devices would learn their hop-route and that was that, which obviously configuring at the office would be a different mesh to what was onsite. If I can configure and then put into commission mode/walk test then I'll go with that. The PIRs mention if they're powered down for longer than an hour, they could take up to two hours to come back online - would throwing a tamper on each device force it to re-communicate with the panel quicker? Edited April 15, 2015 by SparkyUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Leave the lids off everything in commissioning mode, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 (edited) Leave the lids off everything in commissioning mode, Thanks PSE. With regard to putting it into commissioning mode, as devices will be learnt when I get to site, do you mean pressing Omit to bring up the learn function (or Engineer Utilities > Configure Radio), or is there a command to actually put the unit into commission mode? I've not found that in the manual yet. Edited April 16, 2015 by SparkyUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Configure Radio is for old gear. Use the new learn function. With the lid off the receiver it's in commissioning mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Configure Radio is for old gear. Use the new learn function. With the lid off the receiver it's in commissioning mode. Thanks, appreciate the help from everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Only ever fitted it once but agree learn location is unimportant, lets face it on most installs you'd do it next to the rkp / panel anyway. Its the commission mode thats important. Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Only ever fitted it once but agree learn location is unimportant, lets face it on most installs you'd do it next to the rkp / panel anyway. Its the commission mode thats important. Yes, I think I was more concerned that once I'd learnt/configured at the office, would the mesh be affected once on site - as in did the sensors learn their route/path back to the panel and not adjust for this once on site after a power down. From what you guys have said, sounds like leaving it powered up with the tampers open for 15/20 mins on site, they'll reestablish the mesh in the new building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Sounds like leaving it powered up with the tampers open for 15/20 mins on site, they'll reestablish the mesh in the new building. 15 - 20 is not advised, Leave it for at least half hour, It will re-establish itself just fine. If you have Ricochet monitor and a laptop available, You will see the system live as its sorting itself out.. Learn all devices at home / office Go to site & Install it Enable commissioning mode Open all lids on devices Go have a long brew and tidy your van up for 30 mins After 30-35 minutes close all lids up Walk test to confirm detection is satisfactory Disable commissioning mode Program any other settings to design spec Save profile on laptop " If available" Do your paperwork, Collect your money... Job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 Thanks for that, appreciate it. I guess I'm a bit late to the wireless game. How did you know my van was messy? All coded and configured although getting an Expander 1 Tamper error and "box" tamper despite all tamper loops looking ok so got a few things to check off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Thanks again for the advice, the alarm was configured before site visit and is all installed and relatively OK. However, if I may ask another question: Areas: When I used to install the wired-based Premiers, it was just zones, and I assigned them to part-arm or full-arm, and that was about it. Now, the new Elite 24-W's are looking like you code zone(s) into an area, and then you set or unset the area. Is my understanding correct? The 24-W is offering me two areas, but for a 14-zone system, which doesn't need segregating into "areas", this seems overkill. Is there a way to simply code the zones, and set up omit zones for the Part Sets, or do I have to do this through the Areas now? This leads me to think I have to set up one Area for Full-arm, and the second area for, say, Night arm? I am possibly getting myself muddled here. Any advice welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 There are 3 parts sets in each area. Just ignore the areas (put them all back to A) and use the part sets like you have done before. The Elite version of the 24, now has areas as well, this brings the menus in line with the bigger panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 There are 3 parts sets in each area. Just ignore the areas (put them all back to A) and use the part sets like you have done before. The Elite version of the 24, now has areas as well, this brings the menus in line with the bigger panels. Yes, I programmed them all just to appear in Area A. Any way of preventing "Area A" showing up when arming/disarming/reporting? The customer has told me it's confusing that it says "Front door active - Area A" when his previous Premier just said "Front door", for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Best you can do is set some Area Text. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Its funny but I found this a PIA too, at least with scanny you can pop it into 'no partitions' mode on first ever startup, the 'area A' thing is a distraction on a single partition system IMHO. Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Meh, I am glad it has two partitions now. The old 24's where like a posh Veritas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SparkyUK Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 I wish my customer took the same view. After it was all commissioned by 10am this morning, I was asked to remove the whole system. She doesn't like it. This is a first for me - never had a customer refuse a texe unit before, but the partitions haven't gone down well. I now have to find something different, even though we only work with texe gear. What panels in the range still offer non-partition setups? Oh, and it now has to be wired, not wireless apparently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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