matthew.brough Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Funny enough Jef I was heading into Manchester Wednesday for a meeting with big brother and en route there is a fence that has a big banner on it saying home CCTV, a picture of 2 cameras saying £120 fitted, next day service. Call a mobile no. It did inspire me that I was en route to discuss buying a fire company rather than a small CCTV one Where do I start. Perhaps someone of your talents would be better for our industry generally by assisting in the improvement of standards not the degradation of them. You offering me a job Can't see the crew at BSIA/SSAIB/NSI welcoming me with open arms Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Im a fat Matt fan because I can see the potential. You make waves back dooring systems in the local pond. I would respect you more making ripples in a great sea. Not averse to the suggestion . . . Remember, what started the video / non compliant route was SSAIB told me to do one with regards how I wanted to run things because although compliant, they didn't like the idea. This is still subject of a complaint with UKAS so can't talk too much openly about it but the reason they didn't like it is because it was different to the usual model. Just because it is different, doesn't make it non compliant. Now, if they had have taken off their dinosaur ways I'd be now happily sat with what everyone thinks I should have, a compliant ARC with URN's. This week another 13 URN's have gone and traditional systems removed. All I can see is an ever shrinking amount of alarm companies that insist it should be done X way but their customers are demanding Y. Ignoring what a customer wants to me is something you do at your peril. Funny enough I was speaking with SSAIB regarding this complaint and as I informed them, I'm not upset about it anymore for the reason I don't need you anymore. I've found a way to breathe without needing your oxygen mask. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) Funny enough Jef I was heading into Manchester Wednesday for a meeting with big brother and en route there is a fence that has a big banner on it saying home CCTV, a picture of 2 cameras saying £120 fitted, next day service. Call a mobile no. It did inspire me that I was en route to discuss buying a fire company rather than a small CCTV one You offering me a job Can't see the crew at BSIA/SSAIB/NSI welcoming me with open arms Getting you on board would be difficult, keeping you in line would be impossible. I think your wrong about the BSIA/SSAIB/NSI Edited June 6, 2014 by MrHappy Quote Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Maybe you could swing me an invite I can't be bothered with a conversation about why a wired system in a bungalow is better than a wireless system, it's a pointless argument if we're even having the conversation in the first place. Another of those wireless alarms went in today. I must confess I find it hard to swallow the argument that a hard wired blind pir that just sets the alarm off is a better solution than a wireless motionviewer where you can see what set the alarm off http://81.168.26.21/RetroComputingMagazines/00000002.video.wmv http://81.168.26.21/RetroComputingMagazines/00000004.video.wmv http://81.168.26.21/RetroComputingMagazines/00000005.video.wmv Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Trunking by us to support and contain Mains and ELV to 360o DT and smoke gens. Has YTS for segregation, Beams starting high and going low level, then we have door contact and PIR over each entrance and the ali tube on the wider walls is T configured. the plywood sheets are also our spec. these wired jobs are still available. Mains board to be fitted by others. Quote Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Tidy piece of work that Jeff Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 that's a hefty looking smokey what's the load bearing of the trunk and brackets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 intruder.jpg Trunking by us to support and contain Mains and ELV to 360o DT and smoke gens. Has YTS for segregation, Beams starting high and going low level, then we have door contact and PIR over each entrance and the ali tube on the wider walls is T configured. the plywood sheets are also our spec. these wired jobs are still available. Mains board to be fitted by others. Curious how well it would work up there? I would have thought at floor level would fill quicker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 that's a hefty looking smokey what's the load bearing of the trunk and bracketswe have 5 on the trunking note each smoke has a separate support calculated x twice the weight. Curious how well it would work up there? I would have thought at floor level would fill quicker?the units are all second user and worked well at the height on previous building. Offices are on confirm group 00 warehouse is confirm group 01, smoke fires on confirm 01 not separate detection from arm output. Quote Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 we have 5 on the trunking note each smoke has a separate support calculated x twice the weight.. just wondered what the load was of the brackets as they seem to be taking the weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) we have 5 on the trunking note each smoke has a separate support calculated x twice the weight. the units are all second user and worked well at the height on previous building. Offices are on confirm group 00 warehouse is confirm group 01, smoke fires on confirm 01 not separate detection from arm output. Haven't done any bandits for a long time and need to do 2 on a shop floor next week ( sub) - last time I did one was Jessops in Brighton and turfed out ( when testing) he floors above as nothing on fire panel to indicate it linked to other systems!! Edited June 6, 2014 by RFS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 just wondered what the load was of the brackets as they seem to be taking the weight Maybe I'd be a better test? Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 (edited) just wondered what the load was of the brackets as they seem to be taking the weightas you might expect from a sparkie. Suspicious as I am the only bit I don't have AC calc for is the purlins, and as you would also do I have used a tek fixing through the hanger into the trunking. Trunking brackets are inverted fixed with single M8 and very large washers both side to the fog machine and because we do we proved the unit with a two man lift and short log cut of trunking. I'm happy these are going nowhere without a severe impact collision.If you look close at the hangers you can see the tek bolt in the smoke hangers which are not present in the trunking hanger to the right. The caddy clip is specified as 70 kg with M8 and the units are less than 30kg yet I still added belt and braces. Edited June 6, 2014 by jb-eye Quote Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Maybe I'd be a better test? your rope or mine? Quote Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 your rope or mine? You'd miss me if I topped myself Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 You'd miss me if I topped myself who said that? Quote Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 lol, that'd be a mighty splat if it did give way to Matts asphyxiation sex game. Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 You're not funny Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 as you might expect from a sparkie. Suspicious as I am the only bit I don't have AC calc for is the purlins, and as you would also do I have used a tek fixing through the hanger into the trunking. Trunking brackets are inverted fixed with single M8 and very large washers both side to the fog machine and because we do we proved the unit with a two man lift and short log cut of trunking. I'm happy these are going nowhere without a severe impact collision. If you look close at the hangers you can see the tek bolt in the smoke hangers which are not present in the trunking hanger to the right. The caddy clip is specified as 70 kg with M8 and the units are less than 30kg yet I still added belt and braces. i wasn't doubting an old school spark..honest lol,just ive seen some poor trunk brackets out there that seem to struggle holding trunk up.. ps.id have galv piped into the panel too...would have looked better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlarmScot Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Not averse to the suggestion . . . Remember, what started the video / non compliant route was SSAIB told me to do one with regards how I wanted to run things because although compliant, they didn't like the idea. This is still subject of a complaint with UKAS so can't talk too much openly about it but the reason they didn't like it is because it was different to the usual model. Just because it is different, doesn't make it non compliant. Now, if they had have taken off their dinosaur ways I'd be now happily sat with what everyone thinks I should have, a compliant ARC with URN's. This week another 13 URN's have gone and traditional systems removed. All I can see is an ever shrinking amount of alarm companies that insist it should be done X way but their customers are demanding Y. Ignoring what a customer wants to me is something you do at your peril. Funny enough I was speaking with SSAIB regarding this complaint and as I informed them, I'm not upset about it anymore for the reason I don't need you anymore. I've found a way to breathe without needing your oxygen mask. I know our company has upset a lot of the local installer companies and even finding out that some Smaller Guys tells Clients that we are not compliant or as we don't have a SSAIB badge means we don't have high standards but our clients even Home Customers trust us as we are a brand which they know within the local area anyway and I don't work for ADT or etc. I would 100% say to survive in business is if your clients are wanting X then you need to start offering X to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I know our company has upset a lot of the local installer companies and even finding out that some Smaller Guys tells Clients that we are not compliant or as we don't have a SSAIB badge means we don't have high standards but our clients even Home Customers trust us as we are a brand which they know within the local area anyway and I don't work for ADT or etc. I would 100% say to survive in business is if your clients are wanting X then you need to start offering X to make money. You have to be careful what accusations you band about. Just because you ain't badged doesn't mean you can't install to a published standard. Equally it means no one has externally checked that. So yeti said something that made me chuckle but was a valid point. As he isn't badged he feels he is a unhandcuffed installer meaning he views approval as somewhat restrictive rather than a benefit. Looking at what is needed to get badged is the minimum that any decent firm should have to trade but that doesn't under the current setup mean you can't work to the standards without the badge. Some (like me) view it that the relativity low fist of it makes it worth while to shut the critics up. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 You have to be careful what accusations you band about. Just because you ain't badged doesn't mean you can't install to a published standard. Equally it means no one has externally checked that. So yeti said something that made me chuckle but was a valid point. As he isn't badged he feels he is a unhandcuffed installer meaning he views approval as somewhat restrictive rather than a benefit. Looking at what is needed to get badged is the minimum that any decent firm should have to trade but that doesn't under the current setup mean you can't work to the standards without the badge. Some (like me) view it that the relativity low fist of it makes it worth while to shut the critics up. And don't forget that some with a badge can't meet the standards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlarmScot Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 (edited) And don't forget that some with a badge can't meet the standards. Oh yes. My first job was with a Well known Security Company who had every badge but did we hell follow the code. We were told that if we followed the rules and regs it cost more and the company know that if they left the NSI & SSIAB would be worse off than them. You have to be careful what accusations you band about. Just because you ain't badged doesn't mean you can't install to a published standard. Equally it means no one has externally checked that. So yeti said something that made me chuckle but was a valid point. As he isn't badged he feels he is a unhandcuffed installer meaning he views approval as somewhat restrictive rather than a benefit. Looking at what is needed to get badged is the minimum that any decent firm should have to trade but that doesn't under the current setup mean you can't work to the standards without the badge. Some (like me) view it that the relativity low fist of it makes it worth while to shut the critics up. Like we have ISO Standards which does mean we get checked and we do a lot council jobs which means councils housing inspectors often check our work and some of them will pull us up for smallest of things. But did make me chuckle when a women told me about what a Other Installer said to her about how her alarm was not 'legal and compliant' as were not SSAIB badged but we are as I know we got NSI badged to offer Response stuff. The guy did quote her about £750 to replace system which make it 'legal' however I have not a clue who it was but the quote sheet did make it look like it was a small company as they had a Home Address as the company office address. Edited June 8, 2014 by AlarmScot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 And don't forget that some with a badge can't meet the standards. Stop being such a perfectionist. You expect systems to comply with the standards badged firms issue certificates of conformity claiming they do? Oh yes. My first job was with a Well known Security Company who had every badge but did we hell follow the code. We were told that if we followed the rules and regs it cost more and the company know that if they left the NSI & SSIAB would be worse off than them. Like we have ISO Standards which does mean we get checked and we do a lot council jobs which means councils housing inspectors often check our work and some of them will pull us up for smallest of things. But did make me chuckle when a women told me about what a Other Installer said to her about how her alarm was not 'legal and compliant' as were not SSAIB badged but we are as I know we got NSI badged to offer Response stuff. The guy did quote her about £750 to replace system which make it 'legal' however I have not a clue who it was but the quote sheet did make it look like it was a small company as they had a Home Address as the company office address. Few issues here. ISO 9001 is a quality standard so not much use for products meeting product installation standards. Council housing inspectors are in no position to be a recognised authority auditing to industry standards. There is nothing legal about volunteering for 3rd party auditing of your work. Unlike your response service, none of the electronic side is law (except public space CCTV) Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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