Jump to content
Security Installer Community

Recommended Posts

Hello

 

I really need some advice about a burglar alarm.

 

I would like to purchase a burglar alarm and my sparky friend to install it for me. I have been researching different types and one that I came across that is very highly recommended is the Honeywell Galaxy range. I am looking at the Flex 20 which even though seems to be in the low end of Galaxy range, I think it would be more than adequate for my 3 bed semi. I like the concept of the system of how easily expandable it is, should I wish to add features to it at a later date. Additionally, I still have the cables in place from an old Accenta alarm so the Galaxy will have wired sensors/security lights connected to it, as well as a keypad.

 

I have emailed Honeywell for advice but have not had a response so am turning to this forum as I need to purchase a system soon so I can continue my housing project. Please can you answer my questions?

 

- One thing I definitely want is a speech (and text if possible) dialler. With the Galaxy Flex 20 does this come integrated? (I cannot see any other Honeywell speech diallers on the net other than the 'informa') or is there a specific module that I would need to purchase in addition to the alarm panel to get a speech dialler?

 

- This is probably a bit of a random question...I like the idea of the PIR camera, how do these work please? Is there special software I would need to purchase for a PC or smart phone to see whats happening in the property? Does it pick up audio from the camera too? Can the footage be recorded from this?

 

- So I was thinking to set up a system as follows: Galaxy Flex 20 control panel, keypad, 4 phobs for different members of the family, 3 PIR camera sensors, speech dialler module(if one is required separately? unless it is integrated)

 

- Where would the best and cheapest place be to buy this from online?

 

- Does this sound like a good setup?

 

I have recently renovated my property in a big and high quality way so I believe my hard work deserves a decent burglar alarm system to protect it. If I can monitor it then even better.

 

Thanks for your advice and your time.

 

Paul

Edited by Paul Lewinski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I really need some advice about a burglar alarm.

 

Good place to come :)


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If your nice house and hard work deserves a decent alarm, it deserves a decent professional engineer to commission it?

 

Does you sparky mate fit much galaxy?

 

Welcome btw :)

Edited by 9651

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to purchase a burglar alarm and my sparky friend to install it for me.

I'd let your sparkie friend do sparking and leave alarm installation to an alarm engineer with your chosen panel. It isn't for an amateur.

I have been researching different types and one that I came across that is very highly recommended is the Honeywell Galaxy range.

Not without issues but it is at the higher end of products and would be happy with one in my house.

I am looking at the Flex 20 which even though seems to be in the low end of Galaxy range, I think it would be more than adequate for my 3 bed semi. I like the concept of the system of how easily expandable it is, should I wish to add features to it at a later date. Additionally, I still have the cables in place from an old Accenta alarm so the Galaxy will have wired sensors/security lights connected to it, as well as a keypad.

Flex is far from the low end of the range. The G2 holds that crown however for a residential perfectly capable little panel. If you want to do anything clever such as links to other gear and timers etc the G2 isn't geared for that.

 

- One thing I definitely want is a speech (and text if possible) dialler. With the Galaxy Flex 20 does this come integrated? (I cannot see any other Honeywell speech diallers on the net other than the 'informa') or is there a specific module that I would need to purchase in addition to the alarm panel to get a speech dialler?

No. This is pro kit and none have speech diallers installed and for good reason. They are skip food. Galaxy's have integrated diallers to connect the system to a proper alarm monitoring station. If you want tin pot monitoring via a speech or text dialler you need to add it separatly although i'd avoid like the plague.


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No he does not really fit alarms as far as im aware but I understand, thank you. I am happy to get a security engineer to install it if need be, I didn't realise an electrician wouldn't be recommended to install it. 

Edited by Paul Lewinski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- This is probably a bit of a random question...I like the idea of the PIR camera, how do these work please? Is there special software I would need to purchase for a PC or smart phone to see whats happening in the property? Does it pick up audio from the camera too? Can the footage be recorded from this?

 

There are quite a few pir cam solutions but in general the idea is that when an alarm triggers still pictures are sent to a monitoring centre to see if the alarm is real or not and if real to call the police. I do believe there are some low end version direct to mobile but can fail for many reasons and aren't worth the trouble IMO. Someone else here may have more to add on the specific subject of pir cam to mobile phones as a proper monitoring station we don't offer it.

- Where would the best and cheapest place be to buy this from online?

 

http://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/

 

- Does this sound like a good setup?

 

I

Yes, apart from the dialler idea

I have emailed Honeywell for advice but have not had a response

Honeywell are the manfuacturer, they aren't there to offer consulatancy services. With galaxy it is assumed if you want to buy it or want support for it you know what you are doing. It's pro gear.

No he does not really fit alarms as far as im aware but I understand,

I'm sure he does but likley to be tin pot alarms, not Galaxy.

 

That is like saying as I have a garden hose I can do a firemans job. Different skillset.

 I didn't realise an electrician wouldn't be recommended to install it. 

Electricians tend to be better at electrical work rather than ours

If your nice house and hard work deserves a decent alarm, it deserves a decent professional engineer to commission it?

 

Great minds think alike :)


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Galaxy do camera PIR's that work work flex, but again looks like it needs to be set to to be received at an ARC

 

I've never fitted those, but we interface our alarms with another camera PIR system. Its made by RSI videofied. 

 

This sends a 10 second video clip to the ARC to visually identify any intrusion etc. It can also be emailed to the end user, and i believe they now have a user app.

Edited by 9651

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Paul

 

Welcome to the forum. Sorry about the flack, but getting a sparky to fit what is considered as a non diy product, is a bit like going on a sparky website and saying I'm gonna get my burglar alarm engineer to rewire my house what cable do you recommend.

 

Honeywell are unlikely to answer your emails other than directing you to an installer. I cant say for sure because I dont install Galaxy anymore but I think it unlikely that the panel will have a dialler or text dialler the market it is aimed at is monitored but through an alarm receiving centre.

 

No disrespect intended here, but if you want to do it yourself or save money, get your sparks to install a diy system readily available and intended for diy install. If you really want a professional system then I'm afraid you need to get someone that installs these systems daily   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Paul

 

Welcome to the forum. Sorry about the flack,

I'm not giving him flack, I'm giving him sensible advice :)


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for the very detailed answers.

 

I admit this is very new territory for me so I am thankful for your advice.  Please could you tell me what you mean by a monitoring station?  By this do you mean a monthly payment monitoring scheme or like a PC somewhere that I would monitor myself? When you say monitoring station I picture a security guard sitting back on a chair with their feet on the table keeping an eye on a grid of monitors eating crisps - or it just could be that I watch too many films :o

 

Sorry for these simplistic questions, just trying to get my head around it all, its a minefield with all the options available.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for the very detailed answers.

 

I admit this is very new territory for me so I am thankful for your advice.  Please could you tell me what you mean by a monitoring station?  By this do you mean a monthly payment monitoring scheme or like a PC somewhere that I would monitor myself? When you say monitoring station I picture a security guard sitting back on a chair with their feet on the table keeping an eye on a grid of monitors eating crisps - or it just could be that I watch too many films :o

 

Sorry for these simplistic questions, just trying to get my head around it all, its a minefield with all the options available.

Monitoring centre is a very secure building where alarm dispatchers sit and wait for alarms to pop up and then an action is taken to that alarm. See example below from my own monitoring station. These do incur a subscription but this can be quite low. You have been watching too many films, the alarms only pop up on the screen when something triggers, in your case the pir when the alarm is set.

 

Your correct it is a minefield but ask away. We are here to help :)

post-43585-0-22556800-1394654307_thumb.j


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul, as suggested, the Galaxy internal PSTN dialer cannot be configured to dial your phone (with the exception of SMS via TAP, but I wouldn't advise that).

 

As far as installation goes, there are hundreds of DIY'ers who have successfully fitted Galaxy panels - it's far from rocket science. There's plenty of help on various forums (including this one).

 

Also, as far as messaging goes with the Galaxy range, there are other add-on options such as GSM and IP modules which enable DIY based self monitoring via SMS/Voice/E-mail.

 

If you do decide to go ahead with a DIY install, I would suggest using the Galaxy G2 range for a general domestic purposes.  It's cheap as chips and very good quality.  It doesn't support the cameras, but you'd probably be better off with a separate camera system (like suggested above). The Galaxy camera detectors will double the price of your system!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

As far as installation goes, there are hundreds of DIY'ers who have made a complete screw up of fitting Galaxy panels -

I agree


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So do I understand this correctly, the Galaxy G2 can be used as a 'stand-alone' alarm, or it can be used in conjunction with taking out a monthly contract with a monitoring company?

 

I was actually trying to avoid paying a monthly fee which is why I was originally looking to monitor it myself.  Are there any options for self monitoring out there that work well?

 

I think I need to keep it as a simple system for now. It will be wired to the consumer unit  and would have 4 PIR sensors (two downstairs, two upstairs), two door sensors (front and back).  Would need aa keypad and at least a couple of phobs. Then later on I could expand it and add features.

 

With this in mind, do you think the Galaxy G2 would be suitable for this, or would it be overkill?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you recommend them then?

Funny enough as I posted the link, yes

So do I understand this correctly, the Galaxy G2 can be used as a 'stand-alone' alarm, or it can be used in conjunction with taking out a monthly contract with a monitoring company?

Correct

I was actually trying to avoid paying a monthly fee which is why I was originally looking to monitor it myself.  Are there any options for self monitoring out there that work well?

I think most of the self monitoring systems are pants to be honest. The question is, how devastated would you be if the alarm triggered and the message never got through to you. If you are prepared to take your chances, self monitoring is the way to go. If you want the assurance it will work and if theres an issue someone will let you know then an ARC is the way to go. The cost of proper monitoring has become so cheap now makes the self mon ideas look a bit unattractive.

With this in mind, do you think the Galaxy G2 would be suitable for this, or would it be overkill?

Perfect fit for both features and price.


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think most of the self monitoring systems are pants to be honest. The question is, how devastated would you be if the alarm triggered and the message never got through to you. If you are prepared to take your chances, self monitoring is the way to go. If you want the assurance it will work and if theres an issue someone will let you know then an ARC is the way to go. The cost of proper monitoring has become so cheap now makes the self mon ideas look a bit unattractive.

 

 

For keyholder based response, the end result is pretty much the same with SelfMon, but at 1/10th of the ongoing cost and probably more than 1/10th of the initial install cost - not to mention no binding contract. If you only have the ability to look at a list of contacts and attempt to contact them, then this can be automated.  The only difference is where you can contact a separate local entity to attend, and with a self installed system, you cannot.  Adding in police response increases the price to a point of not being comparable with self install.

 

OP,  buy your G2 system from Ebay.  A company called source-security sells them for around £30 new.  The keypads sell new also for around £30.  An IP module will cost you around £45 and self monitor over IP for £1 a month with no contract.

 

Self monitoring is growing in this country - especially now that IP based systems can give up to the minute path status, while applying machine learning to determine how and when to contact you. Why pay Matt to sit at a desk eating crisps waiting for your call to come in...

 

And Matt, as to your mis-quote above: Equally, on this site, we have seen many cases of poor professional installs.  I've seen many instances of poor installation from both DIY and professional.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure I share your view. If you can buy a G2 on ebay, new for £60 this is less that what Honeywell sell the stuff to a wholesaler for suggesting to me this gear is nicked? Not convinced a security forum is the best place to advertise nicked gear.

 

The main issue with this self monitoring idea is its a complete unknown. The software approved? Is it redundant? Is it operating on a laptop connected to a talk talk broadband in someone’s kitchen?  At £1 a month the investment in the kit and it's redundancy is going to be pretty low at best due to simple maths. Forgetting MAS the minimum investment a proper ARC would need to make to receive alarms and get up and running is £30k.

 

To break even on the self monitoring idea that would need such a volume of customers that I don't think is possible to achieve therefore there has to be a hole in the system. I have no doubt you would maintain northward of 98% uptime and the difference between £1 a month and £10 a month might be attractive to accept the potential of a failure and you can use the extra £9 to buy a bottle of wine.


Doesn't mean it is as good as.


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the equipment is stolen or illegal origin, then the supplier has unlimited supply on an ongoing basis.  Find it difficult to believe that Honeywell's stock control wouldn't miss a few hundred panels a month.  There's also a competing supplier on Ebay, so this suggests the wholesale price list you have just aren't getting the breaks these companies are. Either that, or the wholesaler is adjusting the price list for your eyes.

 

As you say, it's a volume game and although a majority of customers stay at the non contract £1 a month, about 10% opt for event reporting of various SIA events (setting/unsetting/external sensor status Etc.) and are happy to pay more for this. Since the software is written in-house, the only overheads are the scalable cloud based services with full inter continental redundancy of databases / receiving servers and any third party messaging services.

 

And I target six sigma based uptime. Accepting 98% uptime on polled systems would cause big headaches.

 

Since you are comparing both types of system, can you confirm that the £10/mth IP based ARC connection has no other cost to the DIY customer to install and commission themselves ?   Do you have details ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

James do you wish to answer his accusation you're rigging my pricing :)

 

Don't get me wrong, what you are offering for the money is a steal for the end user. Just don't see where you personally pay for your house in the Bahamas at that rate but as the end user that wouldn't worry me.

 

Well I wasn't using the discussion as a pitch as it isn't the reason why I'm here and we sell to the market that want's low cost self install via another route but we would supply a dual path webway and poll at grade 4 levels for that kind of money. Customer choice of IP/GPRS/BOTH. They would pay £40 for the board and then £10 a month for unlimited email/fax/sms/calls from the alarms. Ironically we sell at this price point more to alarm companies / sparkies than end users


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take it you have a minimum term, as the webway with IP+GSM must cost more than £40?  If not, I may re-write the Webway firmware and buy the hardware from you :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does, alot more and yes it is a 24 month minimum whereas the beauty of your system is it is 30 day rolling contract?


monitored-alarms.nsi-gold-approved.co.uk/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does, alot more and yes it is a 24 month minimum whereas the beauty of your system is it is 30 day rolling contract?

 

Yes, monthly PAYG with £1 min allowance.

 

re supply. I cant get them or that from honeywell direct, but id guess these panels have adt product codes

 

No, they are not ADT panels. Brand new with pretty recent stock firmware and docs. At first I thought they were being offloaded by Honeywell in order to switch to the Flex, but that was over two years ago now. Almost 1000 panels later. The price includes next day postage too.  From my own experience, the service has been excellent. It's a pity they don't branch out to other items.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much for your help.   

 

I notice that there is the G2-20 and G2-44.  Is there a reason why you steered me toward the G2 rather than the Flex that I was originally looking at? The Flex doesn't seem to cost that much more. Also I am presuming that the G2-20 would be sufficient for a 3 bed semi and G2-40 would be more suitable to bigger properties?

 

I have been looking at Honeywells 'G2 chart' and I have some further questions if you would be so kind to oblige:

 

- What are the dimensions of each box stated above? I was thinking to install it above my front door next to the consumer unit so am wondering if any of the above would fit in the space available.  Is it wise to install the panel there or should I be looking to 'hide' in an obscure place?

 

- I see there are two connector methods to the panel RS485 Bus and ECP Bus. Is this something I need to bear in mind before I buy? I believe this is something to do with the type of cabling used (or wiring at the main panel) . I presume you can have both connections to the main panel if needed?

 

- If I would like to monitor the system over a laptop in the kitchen (this was actually the type of self-sufficient monitoring I was hoping to have), which modules would I need to get? I see there is Ethernet module, GPRS, RF Portal, ECP expander - Im not really sure what any of these do. Please could you explain the basic function of each?

 

- I have noticed that there are systems being sold with 'ASK proximity reader'- Again, please could you explain what this does?

 

- The sites state 'The G2 panel can be set with/unset with a two-way keyfob'. Does this mean that to switch the alarm on and off you just swipe the keyfob against the keyprox? (or does this refer to access as in the door unlocks and locks when you swipe like in a modern office)

 

Thanks so much, these websites state what these accessories are but don't really state what these do, thank goodness you helpful advisers are here to help.

 

Paul 

Edited by Paul Lewinski

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.