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Right I have a job which has been installed and working perfectly or for 2 years, then six weeks ago it started to go wrong.

The job has a Scantronic 65en installed

3x rkps all wired on network 1,

Next to the control panel there is a msnode address 2 wired on network 2,

There is also an mspsu address 1 wired on network 2 fitted about 50m away,

All detection devices are wired 2k/4k

As I said the job was working fine, then I started getting random tamper faults on the devices wired on the mspsu so zones 2011 to 2018, no standard tamper faults on any of these zones, all zones are wired on individual cables, checked for ac induction on the mspsu found 10v induced fitted a act fitler and got it down to 0.2v also fitted one on the control unit aswell as that was at 7v induced. Job was ok for 2 days then again random tampers on a mixture of zones from 2011 to 2018. So I changed the mspsu. Again ok for a weekish, then same again. So fitted a stand alone 12v psu and a msnode (commoned up the negatives) ok again for awhile, then again same faults, control unit got changed and programmed from scratch and not upload to the cu incase there was some bug there.

Been ok for 2 weeks and again same problem.

All cable runs are ran surface and away from all higher voltage cables, I installed the job was know where they have been ran and was able to check them easily

But I'm running out of ideas any help would be much appreciated

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As you say the job is a few years old and has been fine so far. You've replaced the CU and MSPSU (twice, effectively)

and you're still getting the faults.

 

Do they happen at the same time of day?

 

Is there any chance it could be a loose connection, even with all the changes? (I had this on a 95, system would work but did exactly the same, took ages to find...)

 

Is there any chance it could be the original MSNODE??

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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I haven't checked each end of line connection (4x contacts HD 2G, 4x texecom QDs) as the faults are in no pattern or on the same device it's always a mixture of zones, but usually 2 at a time.

The MSNODE was straight out the stores and not pre used

There is no connection with times however I have never been called out after 10pm the business works 7am till 9pm

The CU is powered from the office side of the building, a stardard RCD DB style, on its own breaker, the MSPSU now PSU is spurred from a socket in the workshop which is 3 phase, my next thought is to change the phase,

We have been having a few AC induced power problems on scanny control panels at the moment but mainly on upgrades from aritech panels CD range, so I'm not sure if I'm over thinking the problem, when it's looking at me straight in the face..

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Just like the 8** / 8136 series before it, the common platform series didn't last 5 minutes before it too was binned for the i-on, with the 9xxx outliving it all...

 

For the OP I suspect it has to be something to do with a LV cable issue or existing node rather than AC power, because I can't believe after all those years

the supply is suddenly duff or overloaded with nastiness to the extent it would effect the CU and the MSPSU in two different locations / phases.

 

Also OP, I wouldn't worry a bit about differing phases being a potential issue, personally.

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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The m series/95 are ****. We moved off them about 5 years ago to galaxy and the faults disappeared overnight.

I guarantee you change that to a galaxy/premier and there would be no issue.

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We are talking a lot about switching, but we could really use a panel that has built in analyzers as 75% of our domestic jobs are perimeter protection, company started with itec, mircotec, then aritech panels, again we never had these problems before,

Anyways update on the job, I found a 8way 110 transformer pluged in to the same circuit as the MSPSU was spurred from, the customer has said it was brought roughly the time the problems started!!!!! No tampers since it was moved, but it is still early days, fingers crossed and all that

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And reply to paul.. The premises comprises of normal offices at the front and workshop at the rear, and they make massive plastic bags which fit inside of shipping containers to carry cheap wine around easily, so they use heated elements to seal the plastic,

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but we could really use a panel that has built in analyzers as 75% of our domestic jobs are perimeter protection, company started with itec, mircotec, then aritech panels, again we never had these problems before,

the hkc and the siemens panels have built in analysers on the circuits

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From the classic symptoms my vote us the power being switched if to the remote psu's, possible a rewire/alteration has occurred and has placed the mains feed to the expander psu on to a timed or lighting circuit, that gets turned of as they leave, or perhaps someone like new cleaners has decided suddenly to switch it off before leaving.

Biggest clue is if the time of activation after setting is about the same length of time within say 90 minutes on each occurrence. if you can get them to set it up in front if you, insist it is dine exactly as their habits and using the same person, then observe exactely what they do, if possible monitor the psu power ind lights.

One 'trick' if you have a spare zone at that expander, is to wire a simple psu to power of the expanders mains supply, use a spare relay, but don't fit any battery. attach springs to a zone programmed as 'on test'' so it only logs or prevents arming on any mains failures, but don't trip into alarm while set

Don't forget to go back before the 14 day auto off test timer kicks in though lol!

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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but we could really use a panel that has built in analyzers as 75% of our domestic jobs are perimeter protection, company started with itec, mircotec, then aritech panels, again we never had these problems before,

the hkc and the siemens panels have built in analysers on the circuits

if you want all out on line analysing, then look at the Risco Prosys and Lightsys panels using BUS connected detectors, tells you every thing you need including voltages at device power terminals, so bar which way up the devices have been mounted lol!

as nice touch is if you run the tests it shows the results of that test and the previous test for direct comparison, old school engineers like me just thrive on that sort of diagnostic information :)

Had the Risco rep come here and demo their cloud app, WOW! a real game changer inho. Engineer has fuller access than client via phone, pc or pad, imagine walk testing or fault finding a large premisses using your phone or pad device as a remote keypad giving direct feedback without getting you neon screwdriver out - just a fantastic service aid.

Edited by arfur mo

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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but still not analysed vibro circuits?

i don't use many tbh, innate dislike for detection that can be triggered easily by outside influences, brought about by a misspent youth of many years dealing with inertia contacts and vibro's ;).

Not their yet i agree but i'd wager not far away, i heard a little dickIbird said wireless IP Detector Cameras are soon to be released, one thing you can say about risco, after years o stodgey plodding reliability and not changing design or SW that much, just look at them go now!

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Big issue with viper type detection used on plastic frames is condensation, i've used them in utility rooms to find the client causing them problems with using a steam generator iron that could hot wash busses, sort of problem that can disappear before you get there to actually see it.

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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