Lwillis Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Congrats, sounds like it went well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichL Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Well, That's that over and done with.  They were here at 9am, The visit should of been until 16:30, But he wrapped it up and left here just after 14:00 I have to wait two weeks to find out if I have passed it, They no longer tell you on the day anymore at the end of the visit.  He went to see a mixture of Access, CCTV and Monitored systems. inspected them and all was well apart from a product fault. Being told your panel wiring is "exceptional and extremely neat" is pleasing, Fired off a system and verified all the signalling to ARC, All 100%  All my recent changes in the way the office is run has paid off, Our paperwork was not an issue at all for him, all was well. I did get a non conformity for not having the BSIA standards, But you cant get them until you are accredited anyway, this is apparently the norm ? A small charge of £106.00 gives us full access to the entire security industry standards, this was quite cheap I thought.  I was told that the decision was based on the assessors opinion and review of the days findings and events we went through by someone called Dave "Forgot" He also mentioned that he would be highly surprised if we were not accepted, We shook hands and left with the words Well done, from him  I hate waiting, That's like dangling a carrot on a string in front of a donkey . . . . I have to wait 2 weeks now   Id say you're in without a doubt.  Re the standards, dont forget you pay that annually for access.  There's nothing wrong with them being done by 2pm IMHO if they've seen everything they need to see to make an decision, in fact Id take that as a plus. Next time they visit make sure you have loads of questions for them/him - pick their brains and remember that you pay their wages, and take him to any sites you're working on and need pointers. Ive found that customers are impressed when their site is chosen for inspection, and I always follow up our visits with a thank you letter letting them know their system passed, just as a courtesy. Quote Originally said by Charles Babbage On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Get off anothers thread. Especially one which is good news for a member. Agreed. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I know this might be expected but done in 5 hours as a new firm? I'm sure your a great firm but surly you expected a more thorough audit? Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I know this might be expected but done in 5 hours as a new firm? I'm sure your a great firm but surly you expected a more thorough audit? I didn't think the rapid visit said much for fellow SSAIB companies. Â I don't doubt for 1 minute that he is up to the job, but 5 hours? When we 1st got approval there were certain things they couldn't look at as not yet approved and they came back 3 months later and did a more thorough job and asked to look at URN's etc following approval and as no non conformities then back in 6 months. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 To be honest, I did think it would of entailed more, I was cr@pping it as you know,  But to be fair, He went through the entire paperwork which was passed, our whole sales, survey, quoting and system design, maintenance among a lot more was all checked He went through numerous standards trying to trip me up, which he didn't. He said on a few occasions I was far ahead of what they expected to see at the first audit process.  I got 8 sites prepared for a visit, He selected the 3 he wanted. All were within 5 miles from our office.  The first site visit, All the access was checked, DDA compliant, All RTE and break glass tested and wiring checked with diagrams  Second, We went to a trading estate for a decent size CCTV with speed domes and fixed, also a multi-point door entry & Paxton kit, All heavily tested & checked against SDP  Third site visit, He went through a large domestic, £1.5m property, heavily protected, he pulled it apart and it signalled everything, all compliant  Back at the office, He went through various other details and small tweak's required, nothing really.   What more is there, ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Vetting, URN's, False alarm stats, maintenance stats, ID cards, complaints, standards, insurance just off top of my head. It seems the distance to jobs has helped you greatly as I can often spend 1 1/2 - 2 hours just travelling when we get our inspections. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Vetting, URN's, False alarm stats, maintenance stats, ID cards, complaints, standards, insurance just off top of my head. It seems the distance to jobs has helped you greatly as I can often spend 1 1/2 - 2 hours just travelling when we get our inspections.  Went through - FA Stats  Netport via EMCS for required reports Went through - Already have compliant ones Went through - Complaints procedures, We already have in place Went through - Insurance, Employers, Liability, Efficacy,  All in place Went through - Screening, Were sorted there Went through - CRB, I have basic and enhanced for staff Went through - Standards,  To be honest I answered most of the questions quite quickly  The overall round trip was about 10 miles, This clearly reduced the time taken  Edited June 17, 2013 by PSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Saying that I suppose it is relative. I don't know how many system you have. If you have 10 and he looked at 3 then 30% of your estate has been checked. If you have 1000 systems and 3 were looked at, the exercise is pointless. Â You can't have accurate fa stats as you aren't polcing them although hopefully after today you will get that luxary soon enough. Â The NSI-v-SSAIB debate has long been discussed here but I can see to an NSI Gold company where NSI are over them like a rash to get their badge and see a post showing SSAIB spent 5 hours with you why NSI is viewed as the more valuable medal. Following Jeff's constant rants on the subjects and long discussions with James I think I'm fancying one of these. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 I don't disagree with that at all, However as we all know, The debate will always be an on-going thing between bodies, Both are recognised by insurers. If you have it, You have it sort of thing.  This was discussed earlier, We would never achieve NSI Gold, I couldn't be ar$ed with the ISO side of things, Far too much to be doing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I think I'm fancying one of these. What if they come & only check 1 system & it does not comply ? Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I don't disagree with that at all, However as we all know, The debate will always be an on-going thing between bodies, Both are recognised by insurers. If you have it, You have it sort of thing.  This was discussed earlier, We would never achieve NSI Gold, I couldn't be ar$ed with the ISO side of things, Far too much to be doing with.   The more worrying thing is if things carry on we will need neither. There was a post on linked in http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=249927461&gid=4505413&trk=eml-anet_dig-b_nd-pst_ttle-cn&fromEmail=&ut=19u_IL3LQjOlM1 where some numpty was bragging on about how important approval was.  The only people who would recognise us in any higher regards if we become NSI Gold is our competitors. Police / Fire / Insurers / End User couldn't give a toss. ISO is a ton of ca$h and you will know when you are at the right time for it. Until then, it's just an overhead that you would never get any benefit out of.  As much as I detect paperwork, I love our ISO but it was needed at a certain stage in our development, not at day 1. What if they come & only check 1 system & it does not comply ? Clamp his car until he gives me the medal. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistle Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Tbh, I have no reason to go for NSI. We very rarely lose a job through not being NSI As a company we are here to make a profit and as much of it as we can, saying that we don't cut corners. Since getting in the SSAIB club in 2006 we have 1 non conformity that was for a 13 amp fuse in a spur that a sparky fitted, we requested a 3 amp fuse on the spec and it was not checked on commissioning the system. SSAIB allows us to win 95% of the jobs we quote apart from the large tenders we have been offered that state NSI gold only. But to be fair I don't want that kind of work any way. So what's the point ? Edited June 17, 2013 by whistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxo Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Still got a few saved then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Tbh, I have no reason to go for NSI. We very rarely lose a job through not being NSI As a company we are here to make a profit and as much of it as we can, saying that we don't cut corners. Since being getting in the SSAIB club in 2006 we have 1 non conformity that was for a 13 amp fuse in a spur that a sparky fitted, we requested a 3 amp fuse on the spec and it was not checked on commissioning the system. SSAIB allows us to win 95% of the jobs we quote apart from the large tenders we have been offered that state NSI gold only. But to be fair I don't want that kind of work any way. So what's the point ? Â 2 main reasons. If you want to sell, NSI Gold companies historically have got more cash and the industry perceives Gold companies as better than SSAIB. As I pointed out on the linked in thread, the only people who value Gold are not the ones making decisions to buy our products. Â For me, as the bar is higher to get NACOSS Gold / ARC Gold it just something I want to do, but I accept it will give me no gain commercially. Just a personal want. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Saying that I suppose it is relative. I don't know how many system you have. If you have 10 and he looked at 3 then 30% of your estate has been checked. If you have 1000 systems and 3 were looked at, the exercise is pointless. Â You can't have accurate fa stats as you aren't polcing them although hopefully after today you will get that luxary soon enough. Â The NSI-v-SSAIB debate has long been discussed here but I can see to an NSI Gold company where NSI are over them like a rash to get their badge and see a post showing SSAIB spent 5 hours with you why NSI is viewed as the more valuable medal. Following Jeff's constant rants on the subjects and long discussions with James I think I'm fancying one of these. FFS you can't have it both ways. Fella went through an inspection, seems he did very well - perhaps he was well prepared. If so, good on him. Now you are picking fault with the stats of inspections. Remind us all again which inspectorate you are with? Oh, and your argument regarding the stats is flawed. Â As for the badge.Unless things have changed, NSI don't give a rats **** regards type of system (intruder, Access CCTV), your covered even if they don't inspect the type of system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Still got a few saved then Indeed I do FFS you can't have it both ways. Fella went through an inspection, seems he did very well - perhaps he was well prepared. If so, good on him. Now you are picking fault with the stats of inspections. Remind us all again which inspectorate you are with? Oh, and your argument regarding the stats is flawed. Â As for the badge.Unless things have changed, NSI don't give a rats **** regards type of system (intruder, Access CCTV), your covered even if they don't inspect the type of system. I think you will note my opening part of my comment was that I am sure everything was in order hence why it went to quick. Â You are correct NSI will give approval when they haven't inspected certain scopes whereas when we did CCTV/Access/8418 we were audited on them. 8418 is actually a separate fee and scheme all together although not I believe with NSI. Â We are SSAIB however I would like to 'upgrade' to NSI Gold. Would still keep SSAIB though. It's the Gold I want. I accept cubit it is mainly all marketing but I'm a brand snob. Hard to though NSI's criteria is much higher. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Hard to though NSI's criteria is much higher. Is it?? Any verifiable evidence to support the claim? Do they have a different version of Regs? Â They want need members. Beggars don't turn away donations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Is it?? Any verifiable evidence to support the claim? Do they have a different version of Regs? Â They want need members. Beggars don't turn away donations. As someone who has gone through both SSAIB and NSI application process then yes, I have plenty of notes and documents for the differences. At the time we didn't go forward with NSI despite having all our inspections however the new management team in town (minus banksy) I like and now is the time to look at NSI again. Â They don't have a different version of regs, they just write their own additional requirements to the regs from what I understand and make them a mandatory code of practice. Â Not an NSI fan cubit? Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubit Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) As someone who has gone through both SSAIB and NSI application process then yes, I have plenty of notes and documents for the differences. At the time we didn't go forward with NSI despite having all our inspections however the new management team in town (minus banksy) I like and now is the time to look at NSI again. Â They don't have a different version of regs, they just write their own additional requirements to the regs from what I understand and make them a mandatory code of practice. Â Not an NSI fan cubit? Not particularly. For many reasons. By their open admission, being a badge holder was all about helping sales - not exactly rocket science that it might help but they failed to answer satisfactorily any question about what other benefits, purpose etc etc. We have seen often enough how toothless they are - in effect, encouraging double standards. Â As for diffeerent Regs. I am well aware they is only one version. And that is the one to work to. By giving a badge that covers all scopes even though you may never have fittted that type of system ever (nor intend to) doesn't say much for the quality assurance does it? Edited June 17, 2013 by Cubit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I don't disagree there either cubit. But as consumers, aren't we mainly suckers for good marketing? To me NSI has been very good at that. Same with Bose. 1/2 the kit of theirs I buy is mid range **** with a ton of marketing around it. Do I still buy it? Of course, because it's Bose and that is the attraction of being an NSI company. The perception is gold means top dog, despite me seeing tons of Golds that don't deserve the medal. I can't justify in reasoned argument why I want Gold. It's pure marketing. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Harris Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Those with Gold accreditation or seeking it should be putting pressure on the NSI to promote the value to the end users.  I take on board Matts point about the value issue.  We can all either ignore it (note that this applies equally to SSAIB) or we can promote and educate and at the same time fine tune the process regarding tackling poor performance.  We can throw the lot on the scrap pile but let's be honest, what model would you replace it with that is better suited? Quote  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alterEGO Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't think their is any point pushing approval to end users, if anything it can hurt you. e.g.  Punter: ABC alarms is £X cheaper than you.  Us: Yes but they are sh!t  Punter: But they are approved like you and you said its very hard to gain approval and it means you're the dogs ********?  Us: Fu*k it just give them the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I can see that issue. IF aproval was as hard to get as we all recon it is then it would be a huge selling point however with there being realativly no barriers to getting it I find it more of a box tick than something I shout about. Quote www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSE Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 I have had a very nice telephone call today from SSAIB,  All the hard work seems to of paid off, I do feel very happy with all the recent events and the direction my company is heading. Starting tomorrow my company is SSAIB Accredited.  Thanks for all you input and comments within, its appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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