brum69 Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I have an Abacus panel which is linked wirelessly to a detached garage. The alarm, which is Police monitored, was activated accidently when the side door was opened. The opening of the side door was detected by the Alarm Receiving Company (ARC), however they also state that it was a confirmed alarm. The garage has a PIR inside, which should have confirmed the alarm IF someone enters the garage. In this case, only the side door was partially opened. The ARC has stated that the side door detector and confirmed signal came through at exactly the same time, leading me to assume that the configuration is incorrect. The alarm company has stated that the configuration is correct as the partial opening of the door probably triggered the PIR. Is this configuration correct? Shoudn't a confirmed alarm occur when a person is detected by TWO seperate detectors, not by a PIR being triggered by an opening door? I thought that PIRs are not triggered by the opening of a door? Shouldn't this have been detected during an alarm service, which i've had 10+? Regards Brum69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Out of interest which model of Abacus is this? Don't know a lot about them but can't think of one that has conformation facilities, I'd like to look it up. Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 did the log on the panel show the other detector has triggered. It may have been bodged to get it to send confirms which means its not compliant and why you have this issue. But its also possible that whoever opened the door did actually enter the area. Panel log will confirm or deny this. as maypye i thought the abacus were too old to do confirm? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brum69 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Out of interest which model of Abacus is this? Don't know a lot about them but can't think of one that has conformation facilities, I'd like to look it up. If I remember rightly, its an Abacus 16/8 or 12/6 with a digi and wireless module. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brum69 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 did the log on the panel show the other detector has triggered. It may have been bodged to get it to send confirms which means its not compliant and why you have this issue. But its also possible that whoever opened the door did actually enter the area. Panel log will confirm or deny this. as maypye i thought the abacus were too old to do confirm? Good point, as I've not checked the log. The person did NOT enter the garage at all. I've accidently done the same thing, as the door only has to be slightly opened to set the alarm off. There is a door step to negotiate too, so it not a case of just pushing a door then running in. One thing I did notice on their documentation was that the 4 garage detectors seem to be on the same zone. However, the panel does identify the the detectors indiviually - sidedoor, garage door 1, garage door 2, garage pir or words to that effect. The big issue I have is whether my setup complies with DD243 and BS4737 Parts 1,3&4 (from their documentation), with regards to how it signals a confirmed alarm. If only one detector is activated, this should not signal a confirmed alarm. The alarm company believe that the door has triggered the PIR, which I don't think that it should without someone entering the garage. The ARC state that the confirmed alarm was sent at exactly the same time as the door was opened, which seems like the garage detectors have been 'botched' to produce a confirmed alarm if any are open. Thanks Brum69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 I suspect you have a Abacus 6/14R, these where dd243 & I have them still in service, The movement of objects changes the IR levels within the field of view of the sensor(s), it depends greatly on the circumstances of the event. An Abacus can be wired with many zones off one cable & then the zone can be split to have 2 zone off one circuit. However without viewing the panels log its mere speculation on what happend Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 The log will tell you. DD243 did state that a single action should not produce a confirmed alarm but its not quite a simple as that. In effect the system thinks its a break in. And it was in a way. ie someone entered an area they shouldnt of done. Also if the alarm was turned off, it would send an open or an abort signal to cancel the police call. Obviously there is a time limit here, but why did the person not silence the alarm immediatly. Also a trained user should call the ARC to inform of the mistake and again clear it down. If the door opened enough to trigger the movement sensor (and i pir can see a door especially if its inward opening and a different temp to the area the pir is in) then it would send a confirm at the same time (or close). Depending on how good your communicator is will then depend if its fast enough to deliver the signals at different times. ie if you are on a digi that is slower than other more secure devices. Its possible its wrong but without the log in its impossible to say. Have you ever had an unconfirmed alarms in the past? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 If it is an Abacus 6/14R as suggested by Mr Happy I'm sure it does not have the Confirm Alarm option (I might be wrong though) A piccy of the panel should help. Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 As stated the log will tell you if the PIR activated, this is plausable. I thought that DD243 stated that you should not be able to enter into an armed protected area without first starting the entry proceedure The wireless detectors cannot be all on the same zone, unless there is one wireless txer and they are all wired into it. And if they were it would not be possible to cause a confirmed intruder two activations on the same zone cant confirm Where did all these bullet poitns come from? And how do I get rid of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antinode Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Just my two pence but I recall that we had an Abacus 72r panel that sent confirmed alarms when just one detector was triggered. Could be a potential software problem. brum69, as above, a check of the log will reveal wether or not a second detector had been triggered. It's also probably a good idea to get your alarm company to come out and check the system over to make sure this can't happen again. Out of interest which model of Abacus is this? Don't know a lot about them but can't think of one that has conformation facilities, I'd like to look it up. Pretty much every Abacus panel I've ever worked on apart from the smaller 6/8P and the mega old 64 has a 2nd alarm or "verify" output. It's not subject to the same restrictions as the sequential confirmation we know today is, but it'll send a 2nd alarm if two or more detectors are triggered none the less. Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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