clivesorts Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi all I run a Security installation company in Middx. For the last couple of years we have used Electricians to fit our fused spurs for alarm & CCTV installations. Can someone please advise me of the Regs for the installation of fused spurs as I want to write notes in our employee contracts that they cannot & must not attempt to install a fused spur. None of our Engineers are qualified to fit spurs. Thank you clive sorts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amicus Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi allI run a Security installation company in Middx. For the last couple of years we have used Electricians to fit our fused spurs for alarm & CCTV installations. Can someone please advise me of the Regs for the installation of fused spurs as I want to write notes in our employee contracts that they cannot & must not attempt to install a fused spur. None of our Engineers are qualified to fit spurs. Thank you clive sorts Electrical IEE regs BS7671 are a little confusing sometimes but inshort the person doing the work needs to be suitably qualified and also be deemed a comptent person.Depending on how the spur is installed it could attract a minor works or installation certification.Also the work would probably need RCD protection in some form as req.The work would req testing and the results recorded on the cert.This work would also be notifiable to a regulatindg body NIC EIC or building control.Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivesorts Posted March 6, 2009 Author Share Posted March 6, 2009 Electrical IEE regs BS7671 are a little confusing sometimes but inshort the person doing the work needs to be suitably qualified and also be deemed a comptent person.Depending on how the spur is installed it could attract a minor works or installation certification.Also the work would probably need RCD protection in some form as req.The work would req testing and the results recorded on the cert.This work would also be notifiable to a regulatindg body NIC EIC or building control.Hope this helps. Hi amicus Thank you for the Regs number. So in theory, only an Electrician can fit a fused spur ? Is it then illegal for a security Engineer to fit a spur ? Surely suitably qualified means that the person has undergone a " course " to safely fit the spur. A competent person, who regulates who a competent person is ? Thank you clive sorts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amicus Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Hi amicusThank you for the Regs number. So in theory, only an Electrician can fit a fused spur ? Is it then illegal for a security Engineer to fit a spur ? Surely suitably qualified means that the person has undergone a " course " to safely fit the spur. A competent person, who regulates who a competent person is ? Thank you clive sorts Hi No it is not illegal for an alarm engineer to do the work,but it comes under the scope of part"p" of the building regulations.These tell you what is needed.A course to fit a spur unit would need to be coupled to an understanding of the "17th edition"regs and the ability to test out a domestic instalation as req. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hpotter Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 A one day course will give you/your engs the "competent person" status. Pay for itself over & over again. http://www.tavcom.com/training/PDF/mc_1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Sorry to butt in, how about replacing an existing, (broken back box) spur during a PMV? Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawandorder Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 Sorry to butt in, how about replacing an existing, (broken back box) spur during a PMV? Doing a like for like replacement is not notifiable under Part p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 1. Part P doesn't apply to the addition of a fused spur on to an existing ring circuit if outside of a bathroom, kitchen or "special location" so you don't need "Part P Qualifications" unless you are installing a new dedicated circuit. 2. You need to be competent to do the works, not necessarily a qualified electrician, but you will need a qualified knowledge of electrical installations and the ability to thoroughly check a circuit for safety and to be able to issue a minor works certificate. However the electrical regs do require all fixed electrical equipment to have a double pole means of isolation to allow safe working (there are a couple of mitigating circumstances such as the type electrical supply and earthing arrangement but..........) to keep it simple, I would always fit a fused spur with double pole secret key switch or similar. As Hpotter says... there are various firms around offering training...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirectFS Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 BS7671:2002, IEE Wiring Regulations, 17th Edition. Your local college should run a course which will certify your engineers competent to fit and test a fused spur connection. However, that will have limitations, due to Part P, and due to the regs themselves, in certain circumstances only. Any spur fitted must be certificated - but that's been true for years now. Look for advice from your local Tech College - most run courses for "competent persons". Just try not to put any end stations in people's WC's. Also, someone said below about fitting "secret key switches" - you can buy double pole unswitched fused spurs easily enough - so that seems like over engineering at best to me, as there is no requirement to retro-fit double pole protection onto existing systems. MK do a neon version, MK377 or one without, MK337. Bill. Hi allI run a Security installation company in Middx. For the last couple of years we have used Electricians to fit our fused spurs for alarm & CCTV installations. Can someone please advise me of the Regs for the installation of fused spurs as I want to write notes in our employee contracts that they cannot & must not attempt to install a fused spur. None of our Engineers are qualified to fit spurs. Thank you clive sorts Bill Accord Fire & Security Services Ltd. www.accordfire.co.uk ~ TEL: 0845 474 5839 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 However the electrical regs do require all fixed electrical equipment to have a double pole means of isolation to allow safe working (there are a couple of mitigating circumstances such as the type electrical supply and earthing arrangement but..........) to keep it simple, I would always fit a fused spur with double pole secret key switch or similar. you sure thats not just a 5839 requirement? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 you sure thats not just a 5839 requirement? Yep sorry think you're right.... definately in the BS... can't find it in the eletrical regs.... which seems weird....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted March 7, 2009 Share Posted March 7, 2009 i dunno why it is in 5839 but always has been. I suppose its from the old firemans switches etc and the guys that wrote 5839 assumed all switches should be double pole. But i am guessing lol securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grommit Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I thought Part p was only for domestic instalations didn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 We can do domestic spurs but we are told not to touch commercial as its covered by a different law. I think its 'the electricity at work act' or something like that. The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-G Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 I thought Part p was only for domestic instalations didn . . . PM me for access to the SSAIB members discussion area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistle Posted March 10, 2009 Share Posted March 10, 2009 We have done the ACT course and are now buying a loop tester, we can then cert our spur's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest old-hand Posted March 11, 2009 Share Posted March 11, 2009 We have done the ACT course and are now buying a loop tester, we can then cert our spur's. I did that too few yrs back, there is still confusion if it allows you to do the work if you read the regs. AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivesorts Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Thanks everyone for their replies. Regards ecurran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amps Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 We have done the ACT course and are now buying a loop tester, we can then cert our spur's. How's the spurs going? A couple of questions on this subject. 1. If you have passed a course on "Inspection,Testing & Certification of Minor Works" does this mean you can only fit spurs in domestic property's? or domestic and commercial? 2. If a double socket has been spurred of a ring main i understand it is not ok to connect a fused spur from the double socket? 2a.The fused spur must be connected first then the double socket can be wired from the load side of the fused spur and there is no limit to the amount of sockets that can be connected after the fused spur? 2b. The reason for 2&2a is that the 2.5mm cable must be protected by no more than a 13amp fuse? Any hints tips on fitting fused spurs would be appreciated as i am due to go on a course soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjsturner Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 We can do domestic spurs but we are told not to touch commercial as its covered by a different law. I think its 'the electricity at work act' or something like that. i was led to believe you dont fit fused spurs in domestic propeties unless you are part p registered installer or you notify building control. to my knowledge you dont have to be registered to work commercial or industrial.they say competent not "fully qualified" leaves it open really scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 agreed but part p only applis loosly to new circuits and special locations. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 As long as you have had training, can carry out the tests, issue a certificate and the work is not in a notifiable area, anyone can do it. The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Agreed, did the ACT course eons ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I though part 'P' was required for wet area's? Must have installed spurs into the thousands, but these days I whack a 3amp fused plug into a nearby socket. Relate hate the idea but the time and costs of the course and paperwork etc just not worth it based on numbers done, so client left to engage sparks. Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 dont diagree and its currently acceptable ti use a plug and socket (un switched) at Grade 2 arf as always you can please yourself securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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