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Yale Ain't So Bad


fastalarms

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When we fit an alarm it comes with guarantees.

For example :

If the equipment fails to perform, we are liable (& insured for that risk).

If we fit/site the eqpt incorrectly, we are liable (& insured for that risk).

If the customer calls at 3am xmas day, someone will answer the phone and if need be go to site at 3am xmas day cos among other things local authority will arrange for someone else to go at 3am xmas day and invoice customer who inturn will look to us for reimbursment of authority fee + money back on alarm etc.

Your 1st post says it all:

fitted 80 in 8mths. How many will last 8 years (even a couple of years)? or much beyond the 12mth guarantee the manufacturer gave you.

Have you thought about fastdoubleglazing. (though I understand that is now covered by document L of the building regs, whole different story)

Toot is toot and cant be excused.

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If they don't specify insurance approval I actually tell them NOT to tell their insurance about the alarm .

The reasons being

A. The reduction in premium is generally too small and

B. If the insurance aren't notified that an alarm is installed then there is no argument about wether it was set or wether it failed to work and therefore no argument about the client getting a claim settled.

This logic is allways happily accepted by my clients.

That is both irresponsible and unprofessional and if you do have 'full insurance', including efficacy, (which I doubt) probably invalidates your own insurance. When one of your customers doesn't get paid out following your bad advice, I doubt they will think that it was money well spent.

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When we fit an alarm it comes with guarantees.

For example :

If the equipment fails to perform, we are liable (& insured for that risk).

If we fit/site the eqpt incorrectly, we are liable (& insured for that risk).

If the customer calls at 3am xmas day, someone will answer the phone and if need be go to site at 3am xmas day cos among other things local authority will arrange for someone else to go at 3am xmas day and invoice customer who inturn will look to us for reimbursment of authority fee + money back on alarm etc.

Your 1st post says it all:

fitted 80 in 8mths. How many will last 8 years (even a couple of years)? or much beyond the 12mth guarantee the manufacturer gave you.

Have you thought about fastdoubleglazing. (though I understand that is now covered by document L of the building regs, whole different story)

Toot is toot and cant be excused.

I can't help the 8 months I am a startup!

After 12 months unless you supply a system with a longer manufacturers warranty you too would only replace faulty items on a basis of cost plus an installation fee on a time paid basis. You are all businesses.

YALE are covering the 12months warranty and have replaced FOC the only item that has failed to date without question.

YALE have suggested a battery replacement in 2-6 yrs for the systems so they must have some faith in their longevity.

I am the man who goes when needed at 3am as my clients despite what you are suggesting are important to me.

Out of interest has any professional installers ever installed a 6000 series yale either a 6300 or 6400?

That is both irresponsible and unprofessional and if you do have 'full insurance', including efficacy, (which I doubt) probably invalidates your own insurance. When one of your customers doesn't get paid out following your bad advice, I doubt they will think that it was money well spent.

You seem to have missed the bit where if they ask for insurance approved systems I point them towards an approved installer.

You also have missed the bit where if they approach their insurance it wouldn't be an accepted alarm anyway.

By not lodging the alarm with the insurer they have in fact belt and braces.

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I am the man who goes when needed at 3am as my clients despite what you are suggesting are important to me.

Out of interest has any professional installers ever installed a 6000 series yale either a 6300 or 6400?

Who goes when you are away on your hols?

I think you could answer that last question yourself.

Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care.

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Who goes when you are away on your hols?

I think you could answer that last question yourself.

Holidays? can't afford them..yet

re the second point I meant has a professional installed one to see how they operate or to see how a well installed one performs.

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You seem to have missed the bit where if they ask for insurance approved systems I point them towards an approved installer.

You also have missed the bit where if they approach their insurance it wouldn't be an accepted alarm anyway.

By not lodging the alarm with the insurer they have in fact belt and braces.

I haven't missed anything, it is normally a requirement that the insured informs the insurer of anything that may affect the risk being insured, failure to do that will breach their insurance terms and render them liable to no or reduced payout in the event of a claim.

That has nothing to do with whether or not the alarm is an insurance requirement.

Additionally failing to provide an insurer with all relevant information surrounding a claim could amount to fraud, so advising them that, "If the insurance aren't notified that an alarm is installed then there is no argument about wether it was set or wether it failed to work and therefore no argument about the client getting a claim settled", is not only irresponsible and unprofessional but it could also make you complicit in a fraud.

Your actions may be well-meaning but they are wrong and you should stop immediately.

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I haven't missed anything, it is normally a requirement that the insured informs the insurer of anything that may affect the risk being insured, failure to do that will breach their insurance terms and render them liable to no or reduced payout in the event of a claim.

That has nothing to do with whether or not the alarm is an insurance requirement.

Additionally failing to provide an insurer with all relevant information surrounding a claim could amount to fraud, so advising them that, "If the insurance aren't notified that an alarm is installed then there is no argument about wether it was set or wether it failed to work and therefore no argument about the client getting a claim settled", is not only irresponsible and unprofessional but it could also make you complicit in a fraud.

Your actions may be well-meaning but they are wrong and you should stop immediately.

With all due respect I totally fail to see where your logic is coming from.

Are you actually saying that fitting a YALE alarm actually INCREASES your chances of being burgled.

Are you suggesting that anyone who fits a YALE alarm as a DIY fit has voided their insurance?

There is no fraud in telling a client that he is better not to have an alarm listed on their policy as if they fail to set it could predjudice a claim.

Its common sense.

If they want an alarm the insurance needs to approve or one that will get them a premium reduction I tell them to go NACOSS.

I didn't expect an easy ride in here but I didn't expect to have every stone turned looking for any crumb of discredit no matter how implausible.

I simply said the YALE alarms aren't as bad as you guys make out.

I said they fit a niche in the Market

I asked for the details of a scantronic 1on16 wholesaler (which noone has supplied so I assume you don't really want me to 'better myself')

I haven't criticised you guys

Many of your alarm companies in their seminal days will have had all sorts of bodges done to save a buck I am sure plenty of you giys who have been in the game long enough can tell me stories that you laugh about but would make an NSI inspectors hair curl.

I don't need any slack cutting I am a big boy now.

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I'm not commenting on the Yale system, it would apply to any system.

Encouraging a customer to give false information or conceal relevant information, e.g. 'It doesn't matter if you get burgled when you've forgotten to set your alarm because you haven't told them you've got an alarm" is encouraging them to probably break the terms of their insurance and possibly be guilty of fraud.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, though if that's what you're getting I'm not surprised, in this instance I am trying to help you avoid trouble for yourself and your customer - you can take the advice or leave it but if you leave it you leave yourself wide open to trouble.

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I'm not commenting on the Yale system, it would apply to any system.

Encouraging a customer to give false information or conceal relevant information, e.g. 'It doesn't matter if you get burgled when you've forgotten to set your alarm because you haven't told them you've got an alarm" is encouraging them to probably break the terms of their insurance and possibly be guilty of fraud.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, though if that's what you're getting I'm not surprised, in this instance I am trying to help you avoid trouble for yourself and your customer - you can take the advice or leave it but if you leave it you leave yourself wide open to trouble.

Thanks fella , I still don't understand how installing an alarm and not telling your insurance would lead you open to their refusing a claim.

If they had fitted one of my alarms and then claimed it was NACOSS I could understand a big problem.

I am not telling them to defraud or decieve their insurance company. I am just pointing out that if you fit an alarm and don't tell your insurance you are then safe from any accusations of failing to set it.

Having an alarm fitted unless you are claiming an insurance reduction is no more notifiable than changing a light fitting.

Unless there are any legal bods on here who could shed light on this?

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I am just pointing out that if you fit an alarm and don't tell your insurance you are then safe from any accusations of failing to set it.

Explain to me how that isn't witholding information in the event of an insured loss.

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Explain to me how that isn't witholding information in the event of an insured loss.

I am not telling them NOT to tell the insurance company they forgot to set it.

I am telling them it may pay not to tell the insurance comany they have an alarm.

They are more than welcome to tell the loss adjuster that they forgot to set the alarm when he asks but since it isn't a part of the

the contract it cannot be held against their claim.

If there is no requirement under your insurance policy to have an alarm set because you haven't claimed a premium reduction or the insurance company haven't specified you need an approved alarm then the alarms

failure either by failing to set or malfunction cannot be held against a claim.

If I have something wrong here does anyone have any actual case file notes or precedent.

.

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As far as cover for a failed system it is not required.

You may think its not required, but when you get turned over by a client or an insurance company you will wish you had it.

Furthermore, failing to advise an insurance company doesnt mean they wont take it into account. I would be pretty certain if the insurance assessor turns out after a break in and see's the alarm panel theyre gonna ask the question was it set? If it wasnt they wont pay out, if it was they'll come looking for you!

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Fastalarms,

There is no point trying to convince any of these muppets that the Yale is any good. Fact is the systems we fit are far superior in every way. Like you say, I know there is a niche for this system as there have been many times when people have turned down my quote saying it's too expensive. Personally, I would not fit any of these DIY type systems for various reasons, I get where your coming from though and wish you luck with the business.

These forums are full of people spoiling for an argument or just wanting to put someone down so don't let any of the comments bother you. It's a great source for info, advice etc.

Service Engineer

My opinions may not reflect those of my employer, managers, colleagues, customers, friends, family or pet rabbit.

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I'm not commenting on the Yale system, it would apply to any system.

Encouraging a customer to give false information or conceal relevant information, e.g. 'It doesn't matter if you get burgled when you've forgotten to set your alarm because you haven't told them you've got an alarm" is encouraging them to probably break the terms of their insurance and possibly be guilty of fraud.

I'm not trying to give you a hard time, though if that's what you're getting I'm not surprised, in this instance I am trying to help you avoid trouble for yourself and your customer - you can take the advice or leave it but if you leave it you leave yourself wide open to trouble.

i think i know what fastalarms means,i work for a national ive got a g3 144 with pirs,vipers internal and external sabs,when i got my house insurance,had the usual questions,got an a alarm.yes,is it maintained and signalling(signals via text),yes,i explain what i do who i work for,get the paperwork thru,it says maintained and signals but paperwork is too open for my likeing,again ring up tell them what i do who i work for and the situation and would like paperwork to state this,again paperwork arrives as before,ring them up again tell them i dont have an alarm....

Edited by goncall
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is thiss an early april fool?

Kevin Scott. Owner of KK Alarms...... Installation .. Service .. Repair ...... Thoughout.. Northumberland and North Tyneside ..... Tel:01670 361948 (call diverted after 15 seconds) or 07947444114

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You "have" an alarm = FACT

You "say" you do not to insurance = LIE

Simple as.

back to the topic of Yale

no its not,i dont have an alarm to protect my house and its contents thats what the Hfx was told and they accepted that fact and insured my on that, i could use the alarm to protect my dog as far as they are concerned and id stand up in any court in the land and say that and the judge will be on my side..belive it..

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Forget laws, insurance, claims etc I'm not talking about anything legal or technical.

I'm saying:

A ) You have an alarm in your house........ it is physically there on the wall and can be seen with the naked eye.

B ) You say it is not there!?!?!

the above is like a 3yr old with chocolate all over his face saying.... what cake...no mum never touched it....honest.

Like I say wishing to make insurance claims etc is irrelevant to the material fact - you have it...... but - you claim not to have it.

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Forget laws, insurance, claims etc I'm not talking about anything legal or technical.

I'm saying:

A ) You have an alarm in your house........ it is physically there on the wall and can be seen with the naked eye.

B ) You say it is not there!?!?!

the above is like a 3yr old with chocolate all over his face saying.... what cake...no mum never touched it....honest.

Like I say wishing to make insurance claims etc is irrelevant to the material fact - you have it...... but - you claim not to have it.

im going to put a sticker on the panel saying dog alarm,its not there to stop burglars its there to stop my dog ecscaping from the house..i still dont have a burglar alarm and im insured,i also have a fire extinguisher and a fire blanket(from b&q,still wouldnt use a yale alarm tho) and fire detectors linked to my dog alarm incase the dog starts a fire,i never told them about that,as they would be funny if it doesnt go off in a fire or i never used the extinguisher or trained any one on it or had it serviced etc etc etc..so i get done over(touching wood here mind),did the alarm activate,no i say havnt got one check your paperwork,oh yes george so you havnt,whats that on the wall then..its me dog alarm..who should we make the cheque payable too.....

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is it a yale dog alarm?

better having a yale dog alarm than no dog alarm at all.

better having a snaggle toothed, one eyed, midget, bald, albino wife with BO & thrush than none at all.........no wait.....uuurrghh.

would be a bit like me saying use firebreak for your fire alarm servicing because... um....well....were better than no servicing.

not really the sort of USP that's washes on dragons den nor in the professional world of security system installation & servicing IMO

but what do I know...christ I didn't even know dog alarms were so hightech until 10mins ago.

cheers

C.

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hmmm the answer is not as clear cut as it seems.

Just been looking at some online insurance quote sites and the questionaires differ wildly.

Some don't even ask if you have an alarm before offering your quote.

Some ask wether you have a NACOSS service contract

and some wether you simply have an alarm or not.

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hmmm the answer is not as clear cut as it seems.

Just been looking at some online insurance quote sites and the questionaires differ wildly.

Some don't even ask if you have an alarm before offering your quote.

Some ask wether you have a NACOSS service contract

and some wether you simply have an alarm or not.

It will be very clear if you are burgled when your alarm wasn't set/working or installed properly and your insurer finds out, all policies I have seen require that you inform the insurer of anything or any changes that may affect your insured risk.

It's not a question of whether an alarm is a condition of your insurance, it's a case of whether or not you are deemed to have taken reasonable care with you property.

Rememnber a few years ago Cilla Black was burgled and a payout for her jewellery claim was refused because she didn't have window locks fitted - similar situation.

If an insurer thinks that you did not take reasonable care then they may refuse to pay out all or some of your claim, this could be leaving a window open, not locking your car, not setting your alarm etc. etc.

The advice to not inform your insurer so that it doesn't matter if it's set or unset when you are burgled is wrong and is a failure in the duty of care towards a customer.

This has always been the case but with the current financial situation it is a foolish person indeed who takes risks with their insurance as insurers are going to be looking for more reasons to avoid payout than ever before.

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