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Yale Ain't So Bad


fastalarms

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Hi this is my first post here and to be honest after viewing the forum it is likely to be a baptism of fire.

I would like to give a more subjective opinion of the current range of YALE security alarms than I see posted on these pages.

I have been installing YALE wirefree alarms for just over 8 months.

If anyone will have an idea about how reliable these systems are then I volunteer other than YALE development staff to know as much as anybody, so what has it been like?

I have installed over 80 YALE systems a more or less 50/50 split between the 6200 and 6400.

They have been installed in everything from a council flat to a large detatched house ranging from a system with just one door contact and two pir's and a siren to auto dialling systems with two SAB's, two linked smoke detectors , four keyfobs ,a remoted kepad, five Pet friendly PIR's and five standard PIRs with space for a few more zones too.

When I install these systems I give 12 months parts and labour warranty.

So , I guess you are all wondering how I am getting any sleep with all those systems malfunctioning all over the place , failing and generally giving both the owners and myself a distinctly hard time.

The truth is they haven't.

In all from the 80 system I have fitted I have only had to attend to the following faults. I x external siren that bleeped with the battery fail warning despite being new. (Replaced by YALE foc , even got a couple of free PIR's for good will). and a remote keypad that had supposedly failed. (I noticed teeth marks on the unit and a guilty looking dog.) I still replaced the unit at my cost for good PR.

Any other problems..... Well of course CATS... only twice but both times the cats were getting too close to the PET FRIENDLY sensors. One as it came downstairs and I had mounted the Hall sensor too close to the treads and one wher a cat actually went to sleep on a bookshelf next to the sensor... how it got up there?

Two more problems were both caused by door contacts. The spring of the tamper sensor pushing the contact from the doorframe when the adhesive had absorbed moisture. (All contacts are screwed in now) one from cooking steam the other by wicking moisture through a wooden door frame that wasn't painted.)

I have only had one customer burgled since the alarms were fitted and the alarm functioned as specified bringing his neighboour out. Sadly the neighbour believed the gentlemen in the back garden who were dressed as and claimed to be security guards checking the house...you can guess the rest.

So there is experience from the other side of the fence.

I have all the tools neccessary to complete the tasks needed and work in a professional and friendly way. I also have fitted to refered customers.

I know you will say.. they are rubbish and get a NACOSS alarm.

My local police won't endorse me as I am not NACOSS.

The truth is not everyone can afford a NACOSS fitted alarm and ironically they live in the highest crime areas.Not many 86 year old ladies living alone can climb ladders either so I am providing a neccessary public service.

I also know how to fit properly preventing the errors a first time DIYer would commit before taking the system back to the shop saying it didn't work.

So ther you have it..

I have a feeling this could be a long thread... :unsure:

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So, your point is???

It's just a subjective and quite objective view to counter the kind of remarks that seem to come readily on these forums whenever YALE are mentioned.

I suspect YALE have not been prosecuted under the sale of goods act..

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I also know how to fit properly preventing the errors a first time DIYer would commit

Really?

CATS... only twice but both times the cats were getting too close to the PET FRIENDLY sensors. One as it came downstairs and I had mounted the Hall sensor too close to the treads and one wher a cat actually went to sleep on a bookshelf next to the sensor... how it got up there?

Two more problems were both caused by door contacts. The spring of the tamper sensor pushing the contact from the doorframe when the adhesive had absorbed moisture. (All contacts are screwed in now) one from cooking steam the other by wicking moisture through a wooden door frame that wasn't painted.)

Oops!

I know you will say.. they are rubbish and get a NACOSS alarm.

Funnily enough no, I never recommend NACOSS :sofa1:

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i think the issue isnt the fact the work well enough in a diy environment im sure they do. But for little or no more there are far far supiriour systems available. All id say is why by a product designed to be easy as oppossed to one that designed to do a set job as its main objective. DO yourself a favour and look at the decent pro systems you can buy and still install yourself if you want.

James

securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse

Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.

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I wouldn't fit a yale system even if it was compliant. I love ripping them down and dropping them off at a tip when we install one of our alarms. With yale equipment you don't get options compared to the panels we use. For instances double knocking a zone or if we get false alarms from a zone (very rare) we can put on a soak test period. Alarm panels compared to yale have a long life battrey span enabling to keep the system going in event of a mains failure. Also with yale system you can only use there Pir equipment with conventional alarm panels you can use most of any alarming equipment where needed. So I'm sorry I don't share your views on this.

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I wouldn't fit a yale system even if it was compliant. I love ripping them down and dropping them off at a tip when we install one of our alarms. With yale equipment you don't get options compared to the panels we use. For instances double knocking a zone or if we get false alarms from a zone (very rare) we can put on a soak test period. Alarm panels compared to yale have a long life battrey span enabling to keep the system going in event of a mains failure. Also with yale system you can only use there Pir equipment with conventional alarm panels you can use most of any alarming equipment where needed. So I'm sorry I don't share your views on this.

The YALE panel gives 10hrs standby.

Ok the fault log is only 30 items but its enough to spot a fault reoccuring. Fortunately I have only ever had to read a fault log once.

It was mentioned what if I had 500 out..

Its a fair point. However if I had say 8 of the 80 giving problems I would expect 50 of the 500 giving trouble too but since none of the current 80 give trouble I would be happy to have 500 out without a worry.

There are foibles I have discovered that are not in the manual but I know how to work around these.

.

As for installing other systems. I am currently looking at what else to add to my installation menu.. the scantronic ion16 looks good. The pwermax also looks ok other than the need for the 240v for the siren. Putting spurs in downstairs near the supply is no problem. trying to find a ring main in an attic is altogether different.

I am shocked at how much the systems add up to in parts alone. I guess I have found the best provider for the ion16 but its still

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So, your point is???

i also have installed five of these yale systems and not had one call back if you ask me they are spot on and only bad if the installer doesnt know how to install them properly . first time install a few problems but purely self inflicted........ i say yes to yale

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50 Alarms giving you trouble out of 500 is not very good if you ask me.

Come on somebody has to say it............they are junk!

Sorry you have misread the posts.

I have installed 80 in the last 7 months and have had no issues other than reported in the first post.

The only false alarms have been by user misuse , ie forgetting its on , not shutting doors etc etc.

What I actually said was with no problems with 80 systems out there working I would be happy to be responsible for 500.

I didn't actually say I had problems with 50. I have problems with none!

They are easy to dismiss purely on grounds of price.

I have spoken to YALE and suggested some improvemments.

It wouldn't take much to make these systems grade 2 compatible.

A change to 868mhz , a longer fault log , and dual tech PIR's. I would like the addition of a shock sensor too to the range.

They have anti Jam technology and trigger on receipt of a 433Mhz signal.

They have 16 million codes

They are tested at a full range of temps.

It's horses for courses.

I know we would all love to have Farrow and Ball paint on our walls but sometimes we have to do with Dulux or Homebase basics.

If these alarms weren't available then there would be a whole swathe of the population without any protection.

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as im sure you will see the bulk of the pros onthis board (including myself) will strongly disagree that that type of system is a good one, IMO it gives a false sense of security. There is much more to that unit being made complaint with 50131 than the things you suggest and i dont think the hardware is caperble of being compliant.

as you have said the powermax is a fine product and is well priced. The std bell is a fully wireless bell on the powermax not a powered one but a powered one is available.

If you were to install one and see what a real product is like i doubt you would still recommend it. While im sure they do have a market I find it difficult to see how you can say how great they are when it is all you install. If i installed telephone systems and only used wet string and yoghurt pots then id think that was the way to go (cheap you see and better than nowt) but as hod no experience of a telephone i couldnt compare.

My biggest concern is that some of these systems seem to use the bellbox as the panel. ie outside totally unprotected etc.

But im glad you like them and hope one never fails to perform and you get held accountable.

James

securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse

Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.

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I'm a professional and I like the Yale alarms.

We've earned good money over the years taking them out and installing proper alarms after the yale ones have proved more trouble than they're worth.

.... so Fastalarms, you keep fitting them mate. That'll keep the rest of us in business in the future.

.

.

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PM me for access to the SSAIB members discussion area.

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as im sure you will see the bulk of the pros onthis board (including myself) will strongly disagree that that type of system is a good one, IMO it gives a false sense of security. There is much more to that unit being made complaint with 50131 than the things you suggest and i dont think the hardware is caperble of being compliant.

as you have said the powermax is a fine product and is well priced. The std bell is a fully wireless bell on the powermax not a powered one but a powered one is available.

If you were to install one and see what a real product is like i doubt you would still recommend it. While im sure they do have a market I find it difficult to see how you can say how great they are when it is all you install. If i installed telephone systems and only used wet string and yoghurt pots then id think that was the way to go (cheap you see and better than nowt) but as hod no experience of a telephone i couldnt compare.

My biggest concern is that some of these systems seem to use the bellbox as the panel. ie outside totally unprotected etc.

But im glad you like them and hope one never fails to perform and you get held accountable.

James

I agree with everything you have said.

I do however have a concern that people could miss out on security simply because they don't bother.

If someone has a quote for a NACOSS or SSIAB system and it comes out at

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Some of what you've said so far, although a bit misguided IMO was your opinion and fair enough, we're all entitled to that ....... but you're now talking tosh. We (and other approved companies) fit many audible alarms for much less than that and with no committed ongoing costs, or with a small optional annual charge.

It depends on the system they wanted. If its not simply a two PIR ,one dc, a panel and an SAB then costs do start to mount.

If someone wants monitoring then the costs are there..

They may want monitoring but by the time they have added some extra PIR's , some remote fobs , a remote keypad it just starts to get expensive for the client who would then look for something else.

I have mentioned

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Although if someone could tell me the best place to get sentronic ion16 wholesale I would be grateful. I do wish to start adding 2x systems.

Why, when you say Yale is so good?

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Why, when you say Yale is so good?

Not because I don't see a market or need for the YALE or because I am wary of installing them but purely to expand my customer options.

I am actually a good guy and I do want to make people feel secure. I know I will be getting dismissed as your prefered term 'cowboy' at present but I am starting a new business in the teeth of a recession and aim to expand and employ staff. Its not easy not least because of doubts about your product by others hence another reason to include a recognised system.

YALE with a little more work could produce the right system but it depends where they intend to market themselves.

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Im be surprised if you have insurance for failure to perform based on your figures alone you couldnt afford it and make a living from what your doing.

If the unthinkable happens your going to be in deep poop if the client takes you to court.

And while you assume that your not taking business away from from a proffessional company, if a potential client has quotes from companies, approved or not and you come along with your DIY system offered as a proffessional system some are going to take you up on it.

I hear what your saying about the costs etc and understand why your doing it but the risk your taking is massive and sooner or later you might get bitten.

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Im be surprised if you have insurance for failure to perform based on your figures alone you couldnt afford it and make a living from what your doing.

If the unthinkable happens your going to be in deep poop if the client takes you to court.

And while you assume that your not taking business away from from a proffessional company, if a potential client has quotes from companies, approved or not and you come along with your DIY system offered as a proffessional system some are going to take you up on it.

I hear what your saying about the costs etc and understand why your doing it but the risk your taking is massive and sooner or later you might get bitten.

I have full insurance and also sell online for other revenue. Yes its hard to get a business off the ground but I don't intend to give up just yet.

I do wish to install grade 2x systems too and am just costing them up at present.

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I have full insurance and also sell online for other revenue. Yes its hard to get a business off the ground but I don't intend to give up just yet.

I do wish to install grade 2x systems too and am just costing them up at present.

When you say "full insurance", who provides it?

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The only reason the current YALEs will be ripped out is because the owners will be lazy about changing the batteries, but that goes for the 12v 7ah's in everyone's professional installs too.

The first bit about owners not changing them I totally agree.

I'm afraid I take exception to the last bit here, all professionally installed alarm systems that I've ever come across come with a service contract, one or two visits a year as required when the battery/s would be fully tested/checked as necessary, I must change 400+ a year, everything from 1.2 all the way up to 17.0AH, so don't suggest that the pros don't do their job.

Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care.

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The first bit about owners not changing them I totally agree.

I'm afraid I take exception to the last bit here, all professionally installed alarm systems that I've ever come across come with a service contract, one or two visits a year as required when the battery/s would be fully tested/checked as necessary, I must change 400+ a year, everything from 1.2 all the way up to 17.0AH, so don't suggest that the pros don't do their job.

I meant the owners woudn't keep up with their service contracts not that engineers wouldn't replace batteries..

jeez..lol I am making a mess of this aren't I.

For the record I am noy criticising pro installs or installers

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