james.wilson Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 My stats dont say battery, we must service our systems different to you. While i dont know the scanny 9448 id assume if its logging a tamper then its a tamper problem, i know some of the cheaper panels lie in the logs when the battery is had it but as i said no direct experiemce with the 9448 securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawandorder Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 why? what do your FA stats say is most comman then, though agreed it needs a meter on site I don't have FA stats as I no longer work in the industry but in my personal experince a faulty battery wouldn't manifest itself in this way with a 9448. The 9448 will work quite happily without a battery fitted (as long as the mains is present), obviously if there was a mains failure the alarm would activate but it would be a full alarm with externals and speech dialler. I'm not saying it couldn't be a battery fault, if the mains failed and the battery voltage slowly drops to a level at which the processor fails then anything could happen but I would certainly think the more likely cause is external to the control panel. Again, in my experince, due to the exposed nature of external sounders they are often the source of tamper problems and although the OP has not heard the external sounder a corroded microswitch in an external sounder can often go high resitance for long enough to trigger the panel but not long enough to make the external sounder ring before the fault has fixed itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 I don't have FA stats as I no longer work in the industry but in my personal experince a faulty battery wouldn't manifest itself in this way with a 9448. well trust someone who still works in it - it will and it doesThe 9448 will work quite happily without a battery fitted (as long as the mains is present), obviously if there was a mains failure the alarm would activate but it would be a full alarm with externals and speech dialler.nope I'm not saying it couldn't be a battery fault, if the mains failed and the battery voltage slowly drops to a level at which the processor fails then anything could happen but I would certainly think the more likely cause is external to the control panel. nothing to do with mains fails its around four? times as likely to be the battery over the bell tamper but in this case (assuming the 9448+ is progged right) its more like 100% Again, in my experince, due to the exposed nature of external sounders they are often the source of tamper problems and although the OP has not heard the external sounder a corroded microswitch in an external sounder can often go high resitance for long enough to trigger the panel but not long enough to make the external sounder ring before the fault has fixed itself.the panel "makes " the external sounder ring on bellbox tamper so if the panel goes so does the bell wonder if the O/P has managed to get a multimeter yet - LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawandorder Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 wonder if the O/P has managed to get a multimeter yet - LOL don't have FA stats as I no longer work in the industry but in my personal experince a faulty battery wouldn't manifest itself in this way with a 9448. well trust someone who still works in it - it will and it does Perhaps you could explain the mecahnism which causes this phenomena? The 9448 will work quite happily without a battery fitted (as long as the mains is present), obviously if there was a mains failure the alarm would activate but it would be a full alarm with externals and speech dialler.nope I stand to be corrected but as I recall 9448s (in common with many Scantronic panels) power up in full alarm including external sounders and Speech Dialler if triggered via bell output. I'm not saying it couldn't be a battery fault, if the mains failed and the battery voltage slowly drops to a level at which the processor fails then anything could happen but I would certainly think the more likely cause is external to the control panel. nothing to do with mains fails its around four? times as likely to be the battery over the bell tamper but in this case (assuming the 9448+ is progged right) its more like 100% So assuming that the battery is 100% more likely to cause a tamper fault than an external fault are you saying that nothing external to the panel will ever cause a tamper activation? Again, in my experince, due to the exposed nature of external sounders they are often the source of tamper problems and although the OP has not heard the external sounder a corroded microswitch in an external sounder can often go high resitance for long enough to trigger the panel but not long enough to make the external sounder ring before the fault has fixed itself.the panel "makes " the external sounder ring on bellbox tamper so if the panel goes so does the bell. Not true. If the panel is unset it will not cause an external sounder to activate on tamper unless the panel is programmed for externals on tamper when unset and as I recall this wasn't an option on the 9448. Different makes and models of SAS work differently but with many older units the microswitch interupts the neagtive supply when opened, this will make the external sounder activate (but only for as long as the switch is open) and will remove the negative return thuis causing the panel to tamper. If the panel is not programmed for externals on tamper the full alarm will not activate if unset. I do thouroughly repect the fact that you still work in the industry but an explanantion of your arguments would be helpful to both the OP and to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Different makes and models of SAS work differently but with many older units the microswitch interupts the neagtive supply when opened, this will make the external sounder activate (but only for as long as the switch is open) and will remove the negative return thuis causing the panel to tamper. If the panel is not programmed for externals on tamper the full alarm will not activate if unset.I do thouroughly repect the fact that you still work in the industry but an explanantion of your arguments would be helpful to both the OP and to me. quite simply as you state - the loss of a neg tamper return will force the panel to sound the external sounder (IIRC the 9448+ doesnt allow for non triggering of bell tamper) which didnt happen in this post . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawandorder Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 quite simply as you state - the loss of a neg tamper return will force the panel to sound the external sounder (IIRC the 9448+ doesnt allow for non triggering of bell tamper) which didnt happen in this post. I am sure this is wrong. If you disconnect the switched negative from the panel and simply tamper the external sounder it will still sound. How else would an external sounder be protected in the event of a cable cut for instance? If a 9448 tamper is triggered the s- stays at postive potential when the panel is unset. The only event that will cause to to go negative when unset is a PA or initial power up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 If a 9448 tamper is triggered the s- stays at postive potential when the panel is unset.NOPE The only event that will cause to to go negative when unset is a PA or initial power up. NOPE or loosing the neg return but TBH were going into far too much detail in a public forum so lets just say everyone of our 94`s always has and leave it at that ................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawandorder Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 or loosing the neg return but TBH were going into far too much detail in a public forum so lets just say everyone of our 94`s always has and leave it at that ................. Apology accepted Angus, I knew you would bow to my lenghthier (though not as current experince). lol I have a 9448 in my (rented house) I have just tried removing -r from panel and no external sounder when unset. Also as anticipated the panel does power up in full alarm! Apology accepted Angus, I knew you would bow to my lenghthier (though not as current experince). lolI have a 9448 in my (rented house) I have just tried removing -r from panel and no external sounder when unset. Also as anticipated the panel does power up in full alarm! Oops, forgot to mention, mine isn't a 9448+, it's just a 9448 and it was fitted in 1997 according to the paperwork. The 9448 + may work differently, I didn't fit many but I'm pretty sure that all the 9500, 9100, 9800, 9600 etc etc all powered up in full alarm. From a security point of view it makes sense when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Apology accepted Angus, I knew you would bow to my lenghthier (though not as current experince). lolI have a 9448 in my (rented house) I have just tried removing -r from panel and no external sounder when unset. the way you tested it I very much doubted it would Also as anticipated the panel does power up in full alarm! ditto Oops, forgot to mention, mine isn't a 9448+, it's just a 9448 and it was fitted in 1997 according to the paperwork. The 9448 + may work differently, I didn't fit many but I'm pretty sure that all the 9500, 9100, 9800, 9600 etc etc all powered up in full alarm. From a security point of view it makes sense when you think about it. perhaps your landlord has a portfolio of houses you could go round and try them all Mr Lawandorder I have no issue with DIY`ers offering advice it`s upto the O/P to decide which course of action he wants to take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted July 6, 2008 Share Posted July 6, 2008 Believe me guys, we have hundreds of 9448 panels out there. The panel will run happily without a battery until a power fail, but a connected knackered battery WILL cause a tamper. The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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