breff Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Anyone else had any problems with a digi on a Talk Talk line? We tried prefixing the tel no. with 1280 which usually diverts the call back to BTs lines and works ok, but had no joy it actually said we had dialled an incorrect number. After many calls to Talk Talk it was discovered that it was a LLU line (local loop unbundled I believe), I think this means that Talk Talk have their own equipment in the exchange and the calls are routed purely over their own digital network. Is this what the problem is likely to be when BT transfer to 21CN? The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Shouldn't be a problem with a TT line. 21cn will bring problems with a lot of older equipment, any 16 pin chip digi will fail and the jury is out on some others. Add to that the fact that 0870 numbers (used by many ARCs) will soon add an announcement before dialing (like dialing 0800 on your mobile) and you can see fun times ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Anyone else had any problems with a digi on a Talk Talk line? My Mum has a Talk Talk line and a couple of times it has just "disappeared" for a few days. It's down at the moment. Of course - they deny everything Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Shouldn't be a problem with a TT line. ... you're right - there "shouldn't" be. 21cn will bring problems with a lot of older equipment, any 16 pin chip digi will fail and the jury is out on some others. Have you been provided with any info on exactly why these will fail? BT don't seem to be giving much away. Add to that the fact that 0870 numbers (used by many ARCs) will soon add an announcement before dialing (like dialing 0800 on your mobile) and you can see fun times ahead. Never knew that - Thanks for the info. Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Have you been provided with any info on exactly why these will fail? BT don't seem to be giving much away. Its all about the time allowed for and nature of the connection to ARC, transfer and kiss-off:- This means that your normal landline telephone will no longer rely on a fixed line method of connecting one telephone to another. Instead, your connection will occur via an IP network. Therefore, your telephone call will be split up into data packages and then sent to the receiving telephone. There may be no consequences, but the BSIA is advising its members that if they use digicoms or communication devices, then they need to confirm that they will continue to work once the migration to the new network has taken place.One of the effects of the migration to the new network will be to turn off the power to each telephone line for up to three minutes when the migration takes place within the local exchange Apparantly being done in batches of 100,000+ in the middle of the night - should be fun for ARCs keyholders and 'on-calls'!and from BT 16. Will equipment like my fax machine or alarm system continue to work?It is expected that most end-user equipment will be unaffected by migration to 21CN. However, a programme to test apparatus is being conducted. BT is working with the telecoms industry and suppliers to identify and plan for any issues that users may encounter. Your BT contact will be able to give you more information as soon as it is available. Basic answer seems to be 'suck it and see"! Some digi equipment has already been tested by BT and some have failed the tests - if your customer has one thats failed their alarm will not report after the change. The testing report is out there somewhere but I can't locate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Harris Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Never knew that - Thanks for the info. Thankfully we are not one of those unfortunate ARCs Basic answer seems to be 'suck it and see"!Some digi equipment has already been tested by BT and some have failed the tests - if your customer has one thats failed their alarm will not report after the change. The testing report is out there somewhere but I can't locate it. It used to be directly accessible from a link however, BT now require that you send off to gain access as per this little quote in the mailthey sent me with access details: 3 Database AccessIn order to gain access to the database users will need to follow the following process: 1. Appropriate Individuals requests access to the 21CN Testing Database by emailing consult21@bt.com The subject line of the email request must contain only the following to ensure that it is allocated to the correct administration team: C21 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 Basic answer seems to be 'suck it and see"!Some digi equipment has already been tested by BT and some have failed the tests - if your customer has one thats failed their alarm will not report after the change. How are Alarm Companies supposed to convince their customers to upgrade their signalling equipment prior to conversion armed only with the sketchy information provided by BT ? How many failures will it take and how serious will those failures have to be in order for BT to change their "suck it and see" stance on this ? How does 21CN affect dodgy telco companies like Talk Talk ? - I'd be surprised if they even know what it is - unless there's a little scam in it for them. Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 The testing report is out there somewhere but I can't locate it. This it? http://www.switchedonuk.org/home/how/compatibility/ Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 any 16 pin chip digi will fail and the jury is out on some others. thought stocks of chips dried up a long time ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted December 14, 2007 Share Posted December 14, 2007 thought stocks of chips dried up a long time ago? They did but there are still plenty of old 16 pin scantronic digis out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 http://www.switchedonuk.org/home/how/compatibility/ Interesting report, but here's the thing - the main reason alarm signals fail over IP is due to latency. One would have to assume that BT are testing under "perfect network conditions" as hardly anyone is using it at the moment. When I get up early in the morning and check my email, my internet connection is smooth and fast. If I were to test an alarm signal over IP at that time - it would probably get through 95% of the time. A little later in the morning when businesses open their doors and kids start playing games, my connection almost grinds to a halt. Try getting a kiss-off back from a receiver within 500ms at that time and you'd be lucky to hit 50% success rate. The UK is 4 years behind the Americans on this topic. They have formed their independant groups and done their tests - many, many times over. They have had thousands of systems fail in the field and everyone that ignores the warning has to sign a disclaimer releasing the ARC from any liability. Test 21CN now and all digi's should work. Test it again when a few million people are using it and you will start to get failures. Test when migration is complete and the network is under full load and you'll wonder why BT did not give you a more comprehensive warning - rahther than "suck it and see". Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 They did but there are still plenty of old 16 pin scantronic digis out there. really? thought phone day & confirm would have killed 'em all off yrs ago, The UK is 4 years behind the Americans on this topic. the UK is a completely different market to the USA, note district telegraph don't us the same kit world wide do they? IP signalling for alarms will become the norm, one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 really? thought phone day & confirm would have killed 'em all off yrs ago, What's confirm got to do with a 10yr old system, it did not, does not, have to have confirm signals? The new standards are not retrospective, I wish people would get this right. Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 The new standards are not retrospective, jumping the gun? What's confirm got to do with a 10yr old system, 9058 must have been around getting on to 15yrs? it did not have confirm signals? did I say it did? it does not have to have confirm signals? it does if its lost its urn..... I wish people would get this right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 jumping the gun?9058 must have been around getting on to 15yrs? did I say it did? it does if its lost its urn..... There's absolutely no point in answering all this if you cant read and understand the English language. I'm gone Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 There's absolutely no point in answering all this if you cant read and understand the English language.I'm gone why want don't you understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerabloke Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 why want don't you understand? Your grammar i would imagine Eucam Security Systems 0845 4630 746 www.eucam.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tel Posted December 15, 2007 Share Posted December 15, 2007 Your grammar i would imagine did it make more sense than the don't need confirm rant ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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