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Tallbloke

Electric Gates

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Gents,

I have a bit of a problem with an Elvox system and a Came gate controller. The PTO on the handset, which is intermittant and sometimes the whole thing stops working, the call tone, the code entry and the AV and the only way to release the gate is via radio fob. I got the thing working for a while after swapping the pairs round in the ground sensor loop relay. This would suggest that the PTO pair from the monitor aren't clean. If I used an AC relay to isolate the PTO pair, would that work. Or am I barking up the wrong one. I've had to leave the PTO out so the rest will work.

cheers,

TB

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The PTO is normally AC, the came gate depending on model will be 24 volt or 240 volt. Either way it's input for gate open will have to go via a relay. I would suggest you may have the output of the gate controler mixing with the intercom?


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Came gate open is normally open going closed, volt free on the pcb, what's the model of the gate controller ?

Swapping the loops pairs wont accomplish anything, its a problem with the elvox system and voltages being sent where they should not be. Using a relay from the elvox to the Came controller should solve the problem.

Depending on the operation you require it will be necessary to wire the command into different terminals on the came board ie open auto close

open stop close open ect

cheers

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Gents,

I have a bit of a problem with an Elvox system and a Came gate controller. The PTO on the handset, which is intermittant and sometimes the whole thing stops working, the call tone, the code entry and the AV and the only way to release the gate is via radio fob. I got the thing working for a while after swapping the pairs round in the ground sensor loop relay. This would suggest that the PTO pair from the monitor aren't clean. If I used an AC relay to isolate the PTO pair, would that work. Or am I barking up the wrong one. I've had to leave the PTO out so the rest will work.

cheers,

TB

Most monitors have spare volt free buttons. You could connect wires to spare button instead then gate can be opened at any time even without being called.

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Most monitors have spare volt free buttons. You could connect wires to spare button instead then gate can be opened at any time even without being called.

This is true, i assumed (oops) there were not any. Or if there are not fit a spare button on the monitor rather than mess with a relay that can go wrong in the future. maplins do hundreds of styles and can be fitted in seconds with a cordless and a bit of solder.

cheers

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This is true, i assumed (oops) there were not any. Or if there are not fit a spare button on the monitor rather than mess with a relay that can go wrong in the future. maplins do hundreds of styles and can be fitted in seconds with a cordless and a bit of solder.

cheers

Cheaper is to use the PTO switch but feed it with the control signal from the came PCB, done that several times when interfacing intercom to gates. (I don't know if your PTO is PCB mounted or not, I just slice the tracks and buzz on new cables)

FWIW I don't think the Came PCB gate open terminal would be totally volt free, it will either have a signal on it or be open collector, I can check mine if it's the same one? A relay in the came control box would be pretty easy as the box is pretty big if you want to do it that way? (The one I have here is for the Frog, brinnngggggg dinnnngggg a dinggggg!!) :gimme: Sorry daft fit.


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Cheaper is to use the PTO switch but feed it with the control signal from the came PCB, done that several times when interfacing intercom to gates. (I don't know if your PTO is PCB mounted or not, I just slice the tracks and buzz on new cables)

FWIW I don't think the Came PCB gate open terminal would be totally volt free, it will either have a signal on it or be open collector, I can check mine if it's the same one? A relay in the came control box would be pretty easy as the box is pretty big if you want to do it that way? (The one I have here is for the Frog, brinnngggggg dinnnngggg a dinggggg!!) :gimme: Sorry daft fit.

You can use 3 i think control panels for the Frogs off the top of my head. Just depends what your using it for and the voltages.

Same applies for the ATI or the rest of the range

N/O Volt free is the open type requested by came.

cheers

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You can use 3 i think control panels for the Frogs off the top of my head. Just depends what your using it for and the voltages.

Same applies for the ATI or the rest of the range

N/O Volt free is the open type requested by came.

cheers

Ever seen the 24 volt one melt the transformer? All you need to do is mount the IRTX tooo far away and the bloody panel melts! No fuse blows....

My confusion over the N/O contact, I thought you were saying the Came PCB had volt free to open the gate???


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Ever seen the 24 volt one melt the transformer? All you need to do is mount the IRTX tooo far away and the bloody panel melts! No fuse blows....

My confusion over the N/O contact, I thought you were saying the Came PCB had volt free to open the gate???

Nope, never did much 24vdc with Came. Ended up switching to Nice equipment for that, and very good it is too, especially the auto set up sequence. The fact as well its so good at obstruction detection you can even (don't please but i did test this) not even use safety beams in a pedestrian environment.

cheers

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As always, your ideas are appreciated.

A relay looks favourite at the moment.

cheers,

TB

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Nope, never did much 24vdc with Came. Ended up switching to Nice equipment for that, and very good it is too, especially the auto set up sequence. The fact as well its so good at obstruction detection you can even (don't please but i did test this) not even use safety beams in a pedestrian environment.

cheers

I like the Came "pick your current" selection on the transformer, pick just enough to close the gate and if it touches anything it reverses the gate. Wouldnt even mark your bumper! The 24 volt stuff is for 100% duty cycle, don't know why that is?? It's well made kit though else why would I install on my own gates! :rolleyes:


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I like the Came "pick your current" selection on the transformer, pick just enough to close the gate and if it touches anything it reverses the gate. Wouldnt even mark your bumper! The 24 volt stuff is for 100% duty cycle, don't know why that is?? It's well made kit though else why would I install on my own gates! :rolleyes:

Forgot about this, the 24vdc systems dont overheat as much as 240vac so can be higher duty rated. For example a ATI 240 vac arm will cycle about 12 times then the thermal cut outs will engage. Where as the 24vdc wont.

cheers

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Forgot about this, the 24vdc systems dont overheat as much as 240vac so can be higher duty rated. For example a ATI 240 vac arm will cycle about 12 times then the thermal cut outs will engage. Where as the 24vdc wont.

cheers

Funny thing is low voltage high torque motors normally heat up quicker then their mains voltage brothers?

Must be summit else in it?


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Funny thing is low voltage high torque motors normally heat up quicker then their mains voltage brothers?

Must be summit else in it?

Nope experienced it 1st hand a set of gates kept failing at peak times when ac.

After i fitted 24v the problem stopped.

Ring Heather at Nice she`ll explain it all, or Trevor at Came but the Nottingham head office not the trade centre.

cheers

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Nope experienced it 1st hand a set of gates kept failing at peak times when ac.

After i fitted 24v the problem stopped.

Ring Heather at Nice she`ll explain it all, or Trevor at Came but the Nottingham head office not the trade centre.

cheers

Yes, I'm not doubting it as a fact, I did say it! :rolleyes:

Just observing that low voltage generally means more heat no?


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Yes, I'm not doubting it as a fact, I did say it! :rolleyes:

Just observing that low voltage generally means more heat no?

Its the heat generated at the motor windings thats the problem.

this might help just found it

DC drives are more energy-efficient. AC drives have two stages of power conversion (AC to DC then DC to AC). DC drives have one stage (AC to DC). Each stage has energy losses, in the form of heat generated in the drive. More heat is generated during switching (switching losses). The higher the switching frequency, the more the losses. If braking is required, the regeneration available in most DC drives will increase efficiency further beyond the DB resistors used on most AC drives With their additional stages and higher switching frequencies, AC drives generate more heat than DC, and are less efficient.

Hope that helps

cheers

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Its the heat generated at the motor windings thats the problem.

this might help just found it

DC drives are more energy-efficient. AC drives have two stages of power conversion (AC to DC then DC to AC). DC drives have one stage (AC to DC). Each stage has energy losses, in the form of heat generated in the drive. More heat is generated during switching (switching losses). The higher the switching frequency, the more the losses. If braking is required, the regeneration available in most DC drives will increase efficiency further beyond the DB resistors used on most AC drives With their additional stages and higher switching frequencies, AC drives generate more heat than DC, and are less efficient.

Hope that helps

cheers

I was confused before now I'm more confused! Our electricial grid used to be DC many moons ago and I thought the reason for going to AC was for motors to work better (Using phases lagging each other) On a single phase motor the phases as it were are created using capacitors to put the current 120 degrees apart so I'm still confused as to why lower voltage, and by default more current can produce less heat? That's going to bug me untill I find the answer or I understand the one you found! AARRGGGHHHH! :banned:


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Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones!

My Amateur Radio Forum

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Our electricial grid used to be DC many moons ago and I thought the reason for going to AC was for motors to work better

No, it was to reduce losses in the transmission grid.

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No, it was to reduce losses in the transmission grid.

Yes you are right about transmission loss, AC is far better, got the grey matter working now! It was the discovery of the induction motor that led to this, that's where I got the idea from (Tesla rings a bell??). Just had a thought that DC motors have "much" higher starting torque then AC motors so that's a reason to use them in a low speed high torque duty rated 100% installation, possibly the AC version makes more heat on each "start" cycle but as I said would possibly run cooler over time. I really enjoy bouncing ideas around like this, it's an enjoyable way to learn! Better then trying to remember which menu a setting can be found in.... :rolleyes:


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Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones!

My Amateur Radio Forum

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Yes you are right about transmission loss, AC is far better, got the grey matter working now! It was the discovery of the induction motor that led to this, that's where I got the idea from (Tesla rings a bell??). Just had a thought that DC motors have "much" higher starting torque then AC motors so that's a reason to use them in a low speed high torque duty rated 100% installation, possibly the AC version makes more heat on each "start" cycle but as I said would possibly run cooler over time. I really enjoy bouncing ideas around like this, it's an enjoyable way to learn! Better then trying to remember which menu a setting can be found in.... :rolleyes:

Nice one, got me to thinking as well. Far more fun than assuming.

cheers

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