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What Now For Initial Fire And Security ?


Stal.

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Now that Rentokil have made it public that they are selling off Initial Fire and Security, who would be the best company to take us over ?

So far i have heard that Mitie, Bell, Chubb and Abel are all showing an interest in Initial. However, after years of under-investment by Rentokil, would these companies be any better ?

Discuss.

UTC - The dawn of a new era !

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Now that Rentokil have made it public that they are selling off Initial Fire and Security, who would be the best company to take us over ?

So far i have heard that Mitie, Bell, Chubb and Abel are all showing an interest in Initial. However, after years of under-investment by Rentokil, would these companies be any better ?

Discuss.

When Rentokil hit problems with 'the City' a year or so back and got rid of all the senior management -one of whom is the current chairman of Farepack (allegedly) if i'm not mistaken - it was announced then that all divisions were available at the right price.

That no one came in tells a story. Now they are making it public again suggests, at least to me, that they are now keen to offload, especially as Mitie bought the manned division recently.

As for who may buy, who knows, does it have to be the usual suspects though?? What about Facilities managent companies? some of the large American conglomerates??

It's interesting that none of the venture capital boys don't seem to be interested.

Andrew

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What category? ... and don't say 'toys:cowboy outfits'

Cowboys :bruce_h4h:

Why do people Knock Initial.??

I sub to most of the nationals and Initial is the most organised with kit,paperwork and payment, the equipment is quality kit (even if it is ATS,u lot just scarred of it lol) and the jobs always come in hours.The monitoring station is a lot better and friendlier than most others and the understand the principle and problems with alarms.

Who ever buys Initial will get a quality Company with a great network in the UK. Lets just hope its not someone who just thinks profit and puts a bit more time and money into winning back some of the good customers Sir Stanley Shorrock had years ago.

Chris

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Initial is the most organised with kit,paperwork and payment, the equipment is quality kit (even if it is ATS,u lot just scarred of it lol) and the jobs always come i hours.The monitoring station is a lot better and friendlier than most others and the understand the principle and problems with alarms.

When did those changes start?

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Cowboys :bruce_h4h:

Why do people Knock Initial.??

I sub to most of the nationals and Initial is the most organised with kit,paperwork and payment, the equipment is quality kit (even if it is ATS,u lot just scarred of it lol) and the jobs always come in hours.The monitoring station is a lot better and friendlier than most others and the understand the principle and problems with alarms.

Who ever buys Initial will get a quality Company with a great network in the UK. Lets just hope its not someone who just thinks profit and puts a bit more time and money into winning back some of the good customers Sir Stanley Shorrock had years ago.

Chris

Chris

You are having a laugh aren't you? I've subbied to them for 3 years of and on and I find them as disorganised as the rest. There jobs NEVER go in on hours and their NOPS divison is shocking.

The ATS alarm panel is the worst creation ever, it is an abortion.

Agreed the monitoring centre is very good and friendly operators as well.

cheers

Dave

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Chris

You are having a laugh aren't you? I've subbied to them for 3 years of and on and I find them as disorganised as the rest. There jobs NEVER go in on hours and their NOPS divison is shocking.

The ATS alarm panel is the worst creation ever, it is an abortion.

Agreed the monitoring centre is very good and friendly operators as well.

cheers

Dave

I suppose it depends on which branch you work out of??

Wots wrong with the ATS?? the only down fall i find is the expanders anit that big if usint he plastic boxed type. I have installed 3 this week and can program them in about 20 mins. The more I use them the more i'm understanding them. They are alot better than wot you lot slag them on here. It fits the customers needs and its beats using the galaxy,how common lol.

The keypads look nice and the zone text is a lot better than all other panels on the market.(4 lines of text). I believe this is why nationals are using it cos the xsia text is better than the rest.

Chris

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I suppose it depends on which branch you work out of??

Wots wrong with the ATS?? the only down fall i find is the expanders anit that big if usint he plastic boxed type. I have installed 3 this week and can program them in about 20 mins. The more I use them the more i'm understanding them. They are alot better than wot you lot slag them on here. It fits the customers needs and its beats using the galaxy,how common lol.

The keypads look nice and the zone text is a lot better than all other panels on the market.(4 lines of text). I believe this is why nationals are using it cos the xsia text is better than the rest.

Chris

Chris

Agreed on branch .

As for the ATS, come on mate you have got to be joking.

The ATS is the biggest piece of rubbish ever developed and here's why:-

1. You can't star data lines. You also have to run a seperate 12v as you can't take aux power from expander 12v.

2. The panel can only take two data lines unless you buy a line driver.

3. The remote keypads are dire. They won't mount over a 1 gang electrical box due to hole positions. The cable entrances are the worst in the market. If you have two beldons going into it, you will struggle to terminate both cables in the tiny terminal block.

4. The plastic DGP's are the pits. The metal DGP's have only one 20mm knock out and so if it is full, you can't fit a grommet as there is no room.

5. The outputs on DGP's are a nightmare. You have to cut a lead in half and connector strip cables, there are no terminal blocks for the outputs. The outputs are weak and will just about drive a buzzer and nothing else, even on a neg.

6. The panels don't come with extra RAM as standard, you have to buy extra. Without extra RAM the log is substantially reduced and you have limited user codes. To add RAM requires a defualt.

7. The zone type in the panel change on a daily basis. The worst example is PA. There are currently 3-4 different PA zone types that all do different things. For example one type will trigger the PA output but won't trigger a PA responce via Digi. This zone will not automatically trigger signalling you have to manually program a event flag, very dangerous. When a new PA circuit is designed they don't overite exisiting they make a new one, what's worse they don't delete old circuit types.

8. The ATS has software flaws galore. One of the first which I think has been corrected is the panel required a default if you entered wrong data in comms. Currently if you power the panel up without 4.7K on zones 1 & 2 will result in the panel never sending open and close signals. Another current flaw is the system shows a fault on a spurious zone which stops the system setting. You have to take the zone out of an area and then re-instate it to clear it.

9. When you enter Service mode on the latest version, you are unable to cancel any alarms with user code. You have to exit service, cancel an alarm and then go back into service. The user code won't overide a system in service like the Galaxy, and will stop the panel setting, resulting in a return engineer visit.

10. The panel has no chime. You have to program a zone to event flag which is not operable by the user. ie: It always chimes or it never chimes.

11. Programming user codes is the pits. The user has to program name, program alarm group to tell the system user level, floor group???, Door Group ????? and then program fob or code.

12. The progamming was designed by a computer programmer using flags. Far from straight forward.

13. There is no engineer mode as such. You have to individually inhibit every keypad or expander you want to open. You will still get tamper alarms from the circuits in them.

14. The latest grade3 version will allow the keypad to go blank even though you have faults. If the keypad has gone into # mode the user will need to badge fob 4 times to set. If you are already in menu then you only have to badge 3 times. You can be in zone test emmiting a bleep to say the zone is open and the keypad will still go to sleep. You have to go back in and then go to zone testing to silence the bleep.

15. Titan downloading software is rubbish. In fact it is worse than rubbish.

Thats just off the top of my head, did I miss anything?

cheers

Dave

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Chris

Agreed on branch .

As for the ATS, come on mate you have got to be joking.

The ATS is the biggest piece of rubbish ever developed and here's why:-

1. You can't star data lines. You also have to run a seperate 12v as you can't take aux power from expander 12v.

2. The panel can only take two data lines unless you buy a line driver.

3. The remote keypads are dire. They won't mount over a 1 gang electrical box due to hole positions. The cable entrances are the worst in the market. If you have two beldons going into it, you will struggle to terminate both cables in the tiny terminal block.

4. The plastic DGP's are the pits. The metal DGP's have only one 20mm knock out and so if it is full, you can't fit a grommet as there is no room.

5. The outputs on DGP's are a nightmare. You have to cut a lead in half and connector strip cables, there are no terminal blocks for the outputs. The outputs are weak and will just about drive a buzzer and nothing else, even on a neg.

6. The panels don't come with extra RAM as standard, you have to buy extra. Without extra RAM the log is substantially reduced and you have limited user codes. To add RAM requires a defualt.

7. The zone type in the panel change on a daily basis. The worst example is PA. There are currently 3-4 different PA zone types that all do different things. For example one type will trigger the PA output but won't trigger a PA responce via Digi. This zone will not automatically trigger signalling you have to manually program a event flag, very dangerous. When a new PA circuit is designed they don't overite exisiting they make a new one, what's worse they don't delete old circuit types.

8. The ATS has software flaws galore. One of the first which I think has been corrected is the panel required a default if you entered wrong data in comms. Currently if you power the panel up without 4.7K on zones 1 & 2 will result in the panel never sending open and close signals. Another current flaw is the system shows a fault on a spurious zone which stops the system setting. You have to take the zone out of an area and then re-instate it to clear it.

9. When you enter Service mode on the latest version, you are unable to cancel any alarms with user code. You have to exit service, cancel an alarm and then go back into service. The user code won't overide a system in service like the Galaxy, and will stop the panel setting, resulting in a return engineer visit.

10. The panel has no chime. You have to program a zone to event flag which is not operable by the user. ie: It always chimes or it never chimes.

11. Programming user codes is the pits. The user has to program name, program alarm group to tell the system user level, floor group???, Door Group ????? and then program fob or code.

12. The progamming was designed by a computer programmer using flags. Far from straight forward.

13. There is no engineer mode as such. You have to individually inhibit every keypad or expander you want to open. You will still get tamper alarms from the circuits in them.

14. The latest grade3 version will allow the keypad to go blank even though you have faults. If the keypad has gone into # mode the user will need to badge fob 4 times to set. If you are already in menu then you only have to badge 3 times. You can be in zone test emmiting a bleep to say the zone is open and the keypad will still go to sleep. You have to go back in and then go to zone testing to silence the bleep.

15. Titan downloading software is rubbish. In fact it is worse than rubbish.

Thats just off the top of my head, did I miss anything?

cheers

Dave

:roflmao:

SSAIB Approved.

If it ain't broke, you ain't trying hard enough

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Chris

Agreed on branch .

As for the ATS, come on mate you have got to be joking.

The ATS is the biggest piece of rubbish ever developed and here's why:-

1. You can't star data lines. You also have to run a seperate 12v as you can't take aux power from expander 12v.

2. The panel can only take two data lines unless you buy a line driver.

3. The remote keypads are dire. They won't mount over a 1 gang electrical box due to hole positions. The cable entrances are the worst in the market. If you have two beldons going into it, you will struggle to terminate both cables in the tiny terminal block.

4. The plastic DGP's are the pits. The metal DGP's have only one 20mm knock out and so if it is full, you can't fit a grommet as there is no room.

5. The outputs on DGP's are a nightmare. You have to cut a lead in half and connector strip cables, there are no terminal blocks for the outputs. The outputs are weak and will just about drive a buzzer and nothing else, even on a neg.

6. The panels don't come with extra RAM as standard, you have to buy extra. Without extra RAM the log is substantially reduced and you have limited user codes. To add RAM requires a defualt.

7. The zone type in the panel change on a daily basis. The worst example is PA. There are currently 3-4 different PA zone types that all do different things. For example one type will trigger the PA output but won't trigger a PA responce via Digi. This zone will not automatically trigger signalling you have to manually program a event flag, very dangerous. When a new PA circuit is designed they don't overite exisiting they make a new one, what's worse they don't delete old circuit types.

8. The ATS has software flaws galore. One of the first which I think has been corrected is the panel required a default if you entered wrong data in comms. Currently if you power the panel up without 4.7K on zones 1 & 2 will result in the panel never sending open and close signals. Another current flaw is the system shows a fault on a spurious zone which stops the system setting. You have to take the zone out of an area and then re-instate it to clear it.

9. When you enter Service mode on the latest version, you are unable to cancel any alarms with user code. You have to exit service, cancel an alarm and then go back into service. The user code won't overide a system in service like the Galaxy, and will stop the panel setting, resulting in a return engineer visit.

10. The panel has no chime. You have to program a zone to event flag which is not operable by the user. ie: It always chimes or it never chimes.

11. Programming user codes is the pits. The user has to program name, program alarm group to tell the system user level, floor group???, Door Group ????? and then program fob or code.

12. The progamming was designed by a computer programmer using flags. Far from straight forward.

13. There is no engineer mode as such. You have to individually inhibit every keypad or expander you want to open. You will still get tamper alarms from the circuits in them.

14. The latest grade3 version will allow the keypad to go blank even though you have faults. If the keypad has gone into # mode the user will need to badge fob 4 times to set. If you are already in menu then you only have to badge 3 times. You can be in zone test emmiting a bleep to say the zone is open and the keypad will still go to sleep. You have to go back in and then go to zone testing to silence the bleep.

15. Titan downloading software is rubbish. In fact it is worse than rubbish.

Thats just off the top of my head, did I miss anything?

cheers

Dave

Great post Dave.

16. The ATS has no Part Guard setting.

UTC - The dawn of a new era !

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Chris

You are having a laugh aren't you? I've subbied to them for 3 years of and on and I find them as disorganised as the rest. There jobs NEVER go in on hours and their NOPS divison is shocking.

The ATS alarm panel is the worst creation ever, it is an abortion.

Agreed the monitoring centre is very good and friendly operators as well.

cheers

Dave

Guess it depends on what branch you subby for. The guys who do work for us have no probs at all.

Agree what you say about NOPS though !

UTC - The dawn of a new era !

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i think your stuck with tha ats either way. What do they use, ats and gal?

i suppose its like chubb and the guardall, arnt they a bit wierd too in places

In our local branch, it is ATS all the way, except when a National insists on the Gal.

cheers

Dave

Great post Dave.

16. The ATS has no Part Guard setting.

Who's going for no.17?

Dave

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Great post Dave.

16. The ATS has no Part Guard setting.

Omg dont get me started on the ATS

i've worked on these from day one and like the CD range is full of software faults that dont seem to be getting any better.

Just some of my own

1. Program a fire door cct and you have to program out the external / internal bells from that cct or they sound during the day, not so bad you think untill the system is set somebody forces the door guess what no bells!

2. Agree with Dave the panic alarm program is a joke i can think of 5 different types in use at the moment all with faults, if the dialler is online the silent pa goes audible, great if you have a gun in your face.

3. Get a line fail on the older software and you get ftc on the rkp and the only way of clearing is to default.

4. While on the subject of the dialler if you get a fault you have to change the panel no plug on option.

5. User friendly youre having a laugh, tell the customer to set it you have to badge 4 times to set and 2 to unset. Customer log sit down and prepare to write an essay.

6. You can unpoll the Dgp Expander with no warning and leave site with it unprotected (very handy).

7. The default flags should be protected its too easy to overwrite and cause no end of problems.

8. multi area systems are a joke give the cutomer a fob to set but they still have to choose the area to arm, arm area two and present the fob to set area one and area two unsets without choice.

9. Fit one in a house and set areas for part set just dont go there!!

Just a few i could go on and on. :realmad:

SSAIB Approved.

If it ain't broke, you ain't trying hard enough

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Now that Rentokil have made it public that they are selling off Initial Fire and Security, who would be the best company to take us over ?

So far i have heard that Mitie, Bell, Chubb and Abel are all showing an interest in Initial. However, after years of under-investment by Rentokil, would these companies be any better ?

Discuss.

I don't know much about initial,but when they brought wright fire and security group 2 years ago a senoir manager told me...we have made a //.B.W.F.// up here...we did'nt know what we brought...theythought they were buying just 1 branch,not 4 countrywide....thats organisation for you :rolleyes:

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