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12v Terminals - Or Direct To Battery ?


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Guys,

I am writing a manual for a stand-alone IP device that needs to take power from alarm panels and continue to work in low battery conditions or if the mains power fails.

I appreciate that some panels may work differently, but in general, can anyone advise if there is any difference between connecting the device directly to the battery or connecting it to the 12v terminals on the panel ?

Does the "trickle charge" come into play and what about when the battery is faulty and starts to drain ?

Thanks in Advance.

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Guest ALSEC

Yes - connecting directly to a batt won't put a fuse in between your kit and the power source for it..

And also it's just plain wrong! If you don't already know the answer to this question then perhaps you aren't the best person to be writing a technical document?

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I am writing a manual for a stand-alone IP device that needs to take power from alarm panels and continue to work in low battery conditions or if the mains power fails.

decent controls will have an unfused aux supply for a digi :hmm: but will also have their own ip signalling kit.........

but in general, can anyone advise if there is any difference between connecting the device directly to the battery or connecting it to the 12v terminals on the panel ?

ask us why csl changed there mind?

And also it's just plain wrong! If you don't already know the answer to this question then perhaps you aren't the best person to be writing a technical document?

QFA

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Agree with above, but panels such as texecom premier will disconnect the battery when the voltage falls below a certain level to prevent deep discharge. It depends if you want the device to work for a bit longer than the panel or not and whether you are bothered about totally draining the battery.

The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct!

(Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not)

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but in general, can anyone advise if there is any difference between connecting the device directly to the battery or connecting it to the 12v terminals on the panel ?
Connecting anything directly to the battery is BAD practise, and even if your tech bulletin were to advise it most engineers wouldn't.
And also it's just plain wrong! If you don't already know the answer to this question then perhaps you aren't the best person to be writing a technical document?
QFA

........................................................

Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)

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I'm writing the software side of the manual and have not been involved in the hardware side to date, however, I spotted something in that section regarding wiring that I wasn't too sure about. As far as being qualified goes - I have installed well over 500 monitored alarm systems in my time, but I sold up over 5 years ago and am a little rusty in that department (plus I'm getting old :( ).

breff: Thanks for the info on the Texecom panel. Noted.

ALSEC & Mr Happy: I don't know the answer to this question - that's why I made this post. It seems neither of you do either. Why not let everyone on the forum know how clever you guys are and give us an in depth technical explanation of the difference at the battery terminals and the 12v panel terminals. My 8 year old daughter had already told me about the Aux supply and that there would be no fuse !

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Most modern alarm control panels monitor the state of the battery by taking considerations such as it's charge current to determine it's condition, simply adding any other load to it would increase the assumed charge rate rendering the battery monitoring as good as useless.

........................................................

Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)

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Now we're talking.

That statement alone tells me what I need to know. You other guys are still welcome to expand on that answer - this is a great opportunity for you to show off and show us all what you're made of ;-)

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Dave's answer is 100% correct, nothing to add to that or what was mentioned previously. :)

Regards

Bellman

Service Engineer and all round nice bloke :-)

The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer.

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decent controls will have an unfused aux supply for a digi :hmm: but will also have their own ip signalling kit.........

ask us why csl changed there mind?

QFA

I cant see a problem with this post,

ALSEC & Mr Happy: I don't know the answer to this question - that's why I made this post. It seems neither of you do either.

did you read it wrong?

decent panels have a seperate fused output for signallinmg devies as stated.

CSL in the early days did mention power such devies of the battery but changed their mind.

As dave stated, you cant go wrong with that.

www.nova-security.co.uk

www.nsiapproved.co.uk

No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name.

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decent panels have a seperate fused output for signallinmg devies as stated.

Fair enough - I forgot to mention that I am dealing with American control panels and they tend not to have a seperate output for signalling devices. Unfortunately, I cannot dictate if a customer has a decent control panel or not and that's why I wanted to know about the 12v output.

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Guest ALSEC
I'm writing the software side of the manual and have not been involved in the hardware side to date, however, I spotted something in that section regarding wiring that I wasn't too sure about. As far as being qualified goes - I have installed well over 500 monitored alarm systems in my time, but I sold up over 5 years ago and am a little rusty in that department (plus I'm getting old :( ).

breff: Thanks for the info on the Texecom panel. Noted.

ALSEC & Mr Happy: I don't know the answer to this question - that's why I made this post. It seems neither of you do either. Why not let everyone on the forum know how clever you guys are and give us an in depth technical explanation of the difference at the battery terminals and the 12v panel terminals. My 8 year old daughter had already told me about the Aux supply and that there would be no fuse !

Calm down - looks like someone can't take critism! I'm not trying to show off - it's just a very obvious answer to a very obvious question that should already be known by someone who is writing documentation that possibly 100's of engineers will refer to to connect your equipment to a range of other equipment.

A galaxy will disconnect the battery if it reaches over 14.5v (please correct me if i'm wrong) - if you IP unit was connected to it then it as well would be disconnected and the alarm would not signal!

You should have listened to your 8 year old daughter because she already answered the question!!!!!

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ALSEC & Mr Happy: I don't know the answer to this question - that's why I made this post. It seems neither of you do either. Why not let everyone on the forum know how clever you guys are and give us an in depth technical explanation of the difference at the battery terminals and the 12v panel terminals. My 8 year old daughter had already told me about the Aux supply and that there would be no fuse !

:hmm: i wonder why they bothered to provide separate fused 12vdc supplies (from common source) for aux, battery, node network, rkp network & sab on the networker stuff?? & unfused wire on digi........

who's the nut in nuttsoft??

reasons not wire on a device on to a battery charging ciruit?

load test?

disconnection due to low / high volts

fire risk, the fuse will remove the 12v from the panel but not the battery (intruder alarm battery leads are unfused)

call me a smart ass why does your device not have its own internal battery then......... :whistle:

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