HI Mike,
The first IR camera you suggested from RFconcepts is very good and I have used it in many situations. I havnt had the time to read through all the thread so please excuse my bluntness.
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Hi From Kent - Cctv Advice
Started by Guest_matopia_*, Jan 01 2006 01:33 PM
66 replies to this topic
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#42 Guest_matopia_*
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 09:25 AM
secure4, on Jan 3 2006, 06:00 AM, said:
HI Mike,
The first IR camera you suggested from RFconcepts is very good and I have used it in many situations. I havnt had the time to read through all the thread so please excuse my bluntness.
The first IR camera you suggested from RFconcepts is very good and I have used it in many situations. I havnt had the time to read through all the thread so please excuse my bluntness.
Ok! excellent. Do you mean this camera
Can you give me examples of the situations you have used it in? What sort of true range does it have at night (with enough light), and what type of light (I mean, can you give examples of the light source being used in conjunction with this camera (Colour Sony IR x 49ea-CC70CSHRX-4IR).
Would I need to house this camera or is that the housing as in the picture. My other concern is the camera being destroyed.
I am still undecided on which camera to get, but my choices are slowly being limited to something like this camera or the Samsung 520P or a dome camera or both.
,Mike
#43 Guest_matopia_*
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 02:13 PM
Right, for now (or until I change my mind again 
) I have narrowed my search down to the anti-vandal dome with true day/night module & vari-focal Lens. It's priced at £256.15 -
I quite like the following camera (Armour Dome 480 TVL 24 pcs IR LED Sony CCD Vari Focal) at £232.62 as well (slightly cheaper).
And although I have looked at many IP cameras at prices ranging from £300 to £1500, I don't think they are great value for money, so I am still going for a CCTV DVR Digital Video Recorder. CD Writer, 160gb HDD! at £299 as on Ebay.
Is that too much to spend for what I need (as you can see I am still unsure)? I did look at the sony/sharp dome cameras selling on EBAY for £45, but I wondered what I would be getting for that sort of price. I might just buy one and use it as a comparison or to show quality.
I also quite like the Wakefield Security & Fire offer (Post #38), although preferred the DVR on EBAY. So Peter or (a fat guy..... Red Coat.... big beard.... Foreign accent) if you are reading this, is there any other offer you can do?
,
Mike
) I have narrowed my search down to the anti-vandal dome with true day/night module & vari-focal Lens. It's priced at £256.15 - I quite like the following camera (Armour Dome 480 TVL 24 pcs IR LED Sony CCD Vari Focal) at £232.62 as well (slightly cheaper).
And although I have looked at many IP cameras at prices ranging from £300 to £1500, I don't think they are great value for money, so I am still going for a CCTV DVR Digital Video Recorder. CD Writer, 160gb HDD! at £299 as on Ebay.
Is that too much to spend for what I need (as you can see I am still unsure)? I did look at the sony/sharp dome cameras selling on EBAY for £45, but I wondered what I would be getting for that sort of price. I might just buy one and use it as a comparison or to show quality.
I also quite like the Wakefield Security & Fire offer (Post #38), although preferred the DVR on EBAY. So Peter or (a fat guy..... Red Coat.... big beard.... Foreign accent) if you are reading this, is there any other offer you can do?
,Mike
#44
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 02:31 PM
That Armour Dome looks simillar to this one..
eBay Again
Image Device:1/3" Sony CCD
◎Scanning System:
○NTSC:525 Lines.60 Field/Sec
○PAL: 625 Lines 50 Field/Sec
○EIA: 525 Lines 60 Field/Sec
○CCIR: 625 Lines,50 Field/Sec
◎Horizontal Resolution:480TVL
◎White Balance:Auto
◎Video Output:1Vp-p 75ohm, Negative
◎Gamma Characteristic:0.45
◎Minimum Illumination:0.5lux/0lux
◎Power Consumption:12V
◎Operation Temperature:-10C~+50C
◎Dimension:Ø93x87
◎Vandalproof Day/Night camera
eBay Again
Image Device:1/3" Sony CCD
◎Scanning System:
○NTSC:525 Lines.60 Field/Sec
○PAL: 625 Lines 50 Field/Sec
○EIA: 525 Lines 60 Field/Sec
○CCIR: 625 Lines,50 Field/Sec
◎Horizontal Resolution:480TVL
◎White Balance:Auto
◎Video Output:1Vp-p 75ohm, Negative
◎Gamma Characteristic:0.45
◎Minimum Illumination:0.5lux/0lux
◎Power Consumption:12V
◎Operation Temperature:-10C~+50C
◎Dimension:Ø93x87
◎Vandalproof Day/Night camera
........................................................
Dave Partridge (Service Engineer)
Dave Partridge (Service Engineer)
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 02:58 PM
They look awfully plasticy, to be Anti vandel..... Is it plastic on cast ? does it say on the spec. I reckon a nice brick would see those off in a few seconds....
These are the ones i have and there solid a rock....
Not sure the retial but i know they can be pricey esp. with Day night cam.
These are the ones i have and there solid a rock....
Not sure the retial but i know they can be pricey esp. with Day night cam.
Watchdog Security (Manchester)
#46 Guest_matopia_*
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 03:36 PM
WatchdogSecurity, on Jan 3 2006, 02:58 PM, said:
They look awfully plasticy, to be Anti vandel..... Is it plastic on cast ? does it say on the spec. I reckon a nice brick would see those off in a few seconds....
These are the ones i have and there solid a rock....
Not sure the retial but i know they can be pricey esp. with Day night cam.
These are the ones i have and there solid a rock....
Not sure the retial but i know they can be pricey esp. with Day night cam.
Dean,
Where did you buy yours from? I'm happy to look up the retail price.
Why is finding a camera so hard?
I thought anti-vandal means just that, that bricks and bottles etc, would just bounce off the dome. I mean for £238 one would expect something solid and sturdy. It doesn't say much on the site other than it weighs in at 700g, which is half the weight of the other anti-vandal dome with true day/night module & vari-focal Lens priced at £256.15 that I am interested in. This camera is 1.4kg's. Dave:
The EBAY camera at £85 looks similar, but I am weary about them. Why are they so cheap? What is the difference between them and the £238 camera. There must be major differences. One half of me wants to buy an EBAY camera, but the other half is saying "be careful". I don't want to waste £85 on crap, or on something that doesn't do the job correctly. I have emailed the guys and await their reply. Also I don't trust sellers with only 14 star ratings. That is nothing. But that is just me.
If anyone has purchased the EBAY cameras and can show some evidence that they work well and can vouch for them, then I might consider them.
Edited by matopia, 03 January 2006 - 03:37 PM.
#47
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 04:04 PM
Norbain is where i got them from, i got 1 of them from ebay.
Heres some more info on them:
http://www.cctv-information.co.uk/cgi-bin/...ilent/v28r.html
They actually run a school bus over one on this movie
http://www.honeywell...deos/index.html
Dean
Heres some more info on them:
http://www.cctv-information.co.uk/cgi-bin/...ilent/v28r.html
They actually run a school bus over one on this movie
http://www.honeywell...deos/index.html
Dean
Watchdog Security (Manchester)
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 06:56 PM
Nice Video!!!
The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct!
(Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not)
(Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not)
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 09:13 PM
I use the vantage and wall mount it no problems.
My views are of mine AND my employers
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Posted 03 January 2006 - 11:21 PM
Peter James, on Jan 3 2006, 09:10 PM, said:
The Vantage Dome is better than the LJD one (trust me I have used them both) I can do the dvr with cdr but you will need a monitor or a TV with a composite input to program it, (after that you can watch it on your pc).
Come to think of it you could probably burn cd,s with the other one from your pc.
I dont have a price list to hand but a ball park guess either mentioned domes, the ljd dvr with cdr, psu 100m, of cable bnc's, pc software (no network cables) would come in close to £500. You would need a monitor though.
The LJD dome has better camera positioning for wall mounting, whereas the vantage is only really meant to be cieling mounted (you can mount it on wall but the internal mountings have to be adjusted manually) overall the vantage has a better picture quality, they are both vandal resistant.
Pete
Come to think of it you could probably burn cd,s with the other one from your pc.
I dont have a price list to hand but a ball park guess either mentioned domes, the ljd dvr with cdr, psu 100m, of cable bnc's, pc software (no network cables) would come in close to £500. You would need a monitor though.
The LJD dome has better camera positioning for wall mounting, whereas the vantage is only really meant to be cieling mounted (you can mount it on wall but the internal mountings have to be adjusted manually) overall the vantage has a better picture quality, they are both vandal resistant.
Pete
Well Pete, I would certainly be interested in the better camera (Vantage Dome) and your deal above sounds superb.
Do you mean you can't supply network cables? Is the DVR networkable? I have a box of CAT5 network cable 300m long, so network cable is not a problem. I also do my own crimping and have all the necessary tools. If it is networkable, does that mean I am able to see it on my network (LAN) & access the DVR for playback over the internet (sorry if I am getting technical, oh! and I do have a static IP address), and provided I have some software am I able to control the DVR via software? (that will really be cool if it's possible).
Is composite Input the yellow female on the TV? That I have along with a S-Video, so using the TV to set it all up will not be a problem. Would I still need the monitor after it has been configured?
And installing this all, does it have to be professionally installed or can I do it myself?
Would your deal include the internal mounting or bracket?
Could you perhaps email me all the details, hardware specs, and total price including VAT and we could take it from there.
Pete, I look forward to hearing from you.
Also a big thank you to everyone for all the advice, comments, and help over the past three days. It's been a tremendous help.
Adi: Thanks for your comment (re: the wall mount for the Vantage).
,Mike
Edited by matopia, 03 January 2006 - 11:23 PM.
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 12:22 AM
I ordered one of the Sharp Cams to try out from eBay, will post some pics hopefully tomorrow as it's supposed to arrive by 1pm..
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Dave Partridge (Service Engineer)
Dave Partridge (Service Engineer)
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 09:15 AM
Service Engineer, on Jan 5 2006, 12:22 AM, said:
I ordered one of the Sharp Cams to try out from eBay, will post some pics hopefully tomorrow as it's supposed to arrive by 1pm..
He did suggest the £80 ones instead. So, I look forward to seeing some examples from you. I mean if they are ok, I'll buy a 2nd camera from them.
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Posted 05 January 2006 - 07:29 PM
At the risk of being a totally boring old f@rt, I just thought I ought to throw a couple of basic comments in the pot.
If there is an ongoing vandalism problem, ideally, it would be sensible to go covert first to identify who is doing it. Once caught, the covert camera can then (if appropriate) be converted to overt as an ongoing deterrent. If a visible camera is installed from the outset, it generally deters in about 75% of situations, but can have the effect of triggering other forms of ASB (anti social behaviour), outside the range of the camera. You can always successfully go from covert to overt, but rarely the other way around.
I think Peter James suggested that mounting the camera too high would be detrimental (apologies if I got that wrong), and I would have to agree wholeheartedly. The 'Cone of Containment' is completely wrong for a camera mounted in this position, as you will need to use a wider angle lens to achieve the vertical coverage, and that will produce smaller targets on the recorded image.
Personally, I would have gone for a very sensitive high resolution monochrome camera, mounted in the top corner of the downstairs window (provided of course it gives the desired coverage), and looked to upgrade the porch light which can then be left on all night. If a tungsten bulb is used, that will throw out lots of invisible IR allowing the B/W camera to produce a much brighter image, then would be suggested simply from the visible light level.
Using a 'box' camera with CS mount varifocal lens (personally I hate varifocals!), would allow an inexperienced user to frame the picture on the nearest parked vehicle (plus 1metre each end), and should give a very good image.
Incidentally, it would be preferable to park the red car nearer to the property, as it would benefit from the lighting more so than a silver vehicle (inverse square law and spectral reflectance .... don't even ask!!).
If there is an ongoing vandalism problem, ideally, it would be sensible to go covert first to identify who is doing it. Once caught, the covert camera can then (if appropriate) be converted to overt as an ongoing deterrent. If a visible camera is installed from the outset, it generally deters in about 75% of situations, but can have the effect of triggering other forms of ASB (anti social behaviour), outside the range of the camera. You can always successfully go from covert to overt, but rarely the other way around.
I think Peter James suggested that mounting the camera too high would be detrimental (apologies if I got that wrong), and I would have to agree wholeheartedly. The 'Cone of Containment' is completely wrong for a camera mounted in this position, as you will need to use a wider angle lens to achieve the vertical coverage, and that will produce smaller targets on the recorded image.
Personally, I would have gone for a very sensitive high resolution monochrome camera, mounted in the top corner of the downstairs window (provided of course it gives the desired coverage), and looked to upgrade the porch light which can then be left on all night. If a tungsten bulb is used, that will throw out lots of invisible IR allowing the B/W camera to produce a much brighter image, then would be suggested simply from the visible light level.
Using a 'box' camera with CS mount varifocal lens (personally I hate varifocals!), would allow an inexperienced user to frame the picture on the nearest parked vehicle (plus 1metre each end), and should give a very good image.
Incidentally, it would be preferable to park the red car nearer to the property, as it would benefit from the lighting more so than a silver vehicle (inverse square law and spectral reflectance .... don't even ask!!).
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Posted 17 January 2006 - 04:38 PM
Service Engineer, on Jan 5 2006, 12:22 AM, said:
I ordered one of the Sharp Cams to try out from eBay, will post some pics hopefully tomorrow as it's supposed to arrive by 1pm..
Service Engineer,
Just curious really, did you ever buy those cameras? What are they like? Do you have any night shot photos? What is the quality of the images? Can you send some examples?
,Mike
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Posted 17 January 2006 - 06:37 PM
TBH the quality of picture as the unit arrived was spoilt by the poor positioning of the LED's as they reflected off the dome cover onto the lens and were then visable on the image.
After removing the LED's (which I felt I had to do), the image was better but only as good as the fixed camera I already had. For £50 I got what I expected, reasonable quality picture but a sadly inadequate night vision camera. I didn't bother taking any snapshots of the camera in action as they were very simillar to the pictures I posted previously. I'll also ad that I'm in the process of buying an 8mm version of the same dome from the same supplier, this will be fitted under the eaves as these cam's are not weatherproofed, and again I shall remove the LED's.
The camera was dismantled and the dome casing left for when I can afford a better quality minature camera (pcb cam) to fit inside it. The pcb camera it came with is now fitted covertly in a shop covering a till through a small hole in a tile, and the led's are not currently used but will come in handy sometime.
After removing the LED's (which I felt I had to do), the image was better but only as good as the fixed camera I already had. For £50 I got what I expected, reasonable quality picture but a sadly inadequate night vision camera. I didn't bother taking any snapshots of the camera in action as they were very simillar to the pictures I posted previously. I'll also ad that I'm in the process of buying an 8mm version of the same dome from the same supplier, this will be fitted under the eaves as these cam's are not weatherproofed, and again I shall remove the LED's.
The camera was dismantled and the dome casing left for when I can afford a better quality minature camera (pcb cam) to fit inside it. The pcb camera it came with is now fitted covertly in a shop covering a till through a small hole in a tile, and the led's are not currently used but will come in handy sometime.
........................................................
Dave Partridge (Service Engineer)
Dave Partridge (Service Engineer)
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Posted 18 January 2006 - 07:20 PM
I had similar problems to you last November. Coincidentaly, I was installing CCTV at the time anyway and were able to identify the people responsible after a couple of days. The police went round to their houses and got them. My IR camara is a 50m one but it only really can see faces at 8m with some background illumination.
I'm upgrading my system now so will follow your post.
Does CCTV work. Well I'm still a bit uneasy in the evening sometimes but at least I know that any thing is being recorded on motion detection. I've not had anymore problems and any kids now walk on the other side of the road but the CCTV still gets them over there anyway HaHa.
If you go down the pc route get a dedicated pc for the job. Mine was £40 off Ebay and is perfect. All it needed was a DVR card and and a big HD.
Good Luck and I hope you nail the B******ds
I'm upgrading my system now so will follow your post.
Does CCTV work. Well I'm still a bit uneasy in the evening sometimes but at least I know that any thing is being recorded on motion detection. I've not had anymore problems and any kids now walk on the other side of the road but the CCTV still gets them over there anyway HaHa.
If you go down the pc route get a dedicated pc for the job. Mine was £40 off Ebay and is perfect. All it needed was a DVR card and and a big HD.
Good Luck and I hope you nail the B******ds
#57 Guest_matopia_*
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Posted 20 January 2006 - 12:26 PM
tubularowl, on Jan 18 2006, 07:20 PM, said:
I had similar problems to you last November. Coincidentaly, I was installing CCTV at the time anyway and were able to identify the people responsible after a couple of days. The police went round to their houses and got them. My IR camara is a 50m one but it only really can see faces at 8m with some background illumination.
I'm upgrading my system now so will follow your post.
Does CCTV work. Well I'm still a bit uneasy in the evening sometimes but at least I know that any thing is being recorded on motion detection. I've not had anymore problems and any kids now walk on the other side of the road but the CCTV still gets them over there anyway HaHa.
If you go down the pc route get a dedicated pc for the job. Mine was £40 off Ebay and is perfect. All it needed was a DVR card and and a big HD.
Good Luck and I hope you nail the B******ds
I'm upgrading my system now so will follow your post.
Does CCTV work. Well I'm still a bit uneasy in the evening sometimes but at least I know that any thing is being recorded on motion detection. I've not had anymore problems and any kids now walk on the other side of the road but the CCTV still gets them over there anyway HaHa.
If you go down the pc route get a dedicated pc for the job. Mine was £40 off Ebay and is perfect. All it needed was a DVR card and and a big HD.
Good Luck and I hope you nail the B******ds
Please do Tubularowl...
What IR camera do you currently have? Are you using Geovision software? How big is a big hard drive? What DVR card did you get?
I haven't decided yet what to buy. Too much choice out there.
,Mike
#58 Guest_matopia_*
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Posted 20 January 2006 - 01:40 PM
It's been 20 days since my decision to install CCTV to my property and my search for a camera has been some what frustrating because there has are so many cameras on offer, and even though advice from everyone on this forum has been amazing, I am still a little apprehensive about rushing into buying a CCTV kit i know nothing about.
But I want to wrap this up as soon as possible, because I have CCTV on the brain and it cannot be a good thing. So I have compiled a list of cameras I am interested in. I would appreciate your thoughts on the cameras and please feel free to recommend a similar camera. I am not interested in a cheap alternative (e.g. an EBAY lookalike, or a gadget spy camera). I have £350 to spend. That is a maximum, so I am expecting everything (box, cables, psu, lenses, mounts etc) for that price.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.buythis.co.uk/open_product.asp?...ffset=&Orderby=
Vantage VGC750 - 1/2 G Series CCTV Camera Day/Night - 3yr warranty for £199.
480 Line, 0.5 Lux, DD, AMP, BLC, IR Responsive 240Vac
* 480 TVL
* IR Pass Filter
* 0.5 Lux (F1.2)
* 4 mode backlight compensation
* Camera ID Function
* Cat5 Video Output/Comp Video Output* Available in 12v/24Vac VGC752
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept...k/cs_camera.htm
True Day/Night C/CS mount Camera
Model 45CSHR-12 £95 Special
Sony Super HAD CCD 500TVL High Res
Auto Iris will accept Manual, direct or video drive lens.
With 3.5-8mm direct drive lens £125
1/3" Sony super HAD CCD 500TVL High Res
0.01 lux at F1.2
12V DC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept...k/cs_camera.htm
True day/night C/CS mount camera
Model 45CSHRX £115
Sony EXVIEW HAD 500TVL High RES.
Auto Iris will accept Manual, direct or video lens
with 3.5-8mm direct drive lens £135
1/3" Sony EXVIEW HAD CCD 500TVL
0.001 lux at F1.2
12VDC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/colour_sony_ir.htm
IR x 49ea-CC70CSHRX-4IR
Sony EXVIEW HADA CDD £155
Fixed focal 4.3mm, 8mm, or 12mm lens
0 Lux at no illumination
850nm (long range) IR LEDs x 49ea
12VDC/ 1A required for high power IR
cable attached with waterproof connector
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept...m-bullet-bw.htm
Model 19BW
Quality camera -1/3" CCD
Waterproof
Fixed focus lens
Good low light capability, 0.05lux
Hori. 420 TV-line
Auto-iris controlled by electronic system
Aluminium housing, Black
Complete with bracket
CCIR format
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept..._colour_ccd.htm
21CWSHRX (High Res EXVIEW (low light) Sony CCD £145
High Res, 1/3", DSP color CCD (Sony Super HAD)
480 TV Lines
0.5 Lux at F2.0
0.1 Lux at 2.0 (EX-View version)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
,
Mike
But I want to wrap this up as soon as possible, because I have CCTV on the brain and it cannot be a good thing. So I have compiled a list of cameras I am interested in. I would appreciate your thoughts on the cameras and please feel free to recommend a similar camera. I am not interested in a cheap alternative (e.g. an EBAY lookalike, or a gadget spy camera). I have £350 to spend. That is a maximum, so I am expecting everything (box, cables, psu, lenses, mounts etc) for that price.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.buythis.co.uk/open_product.asp?...ffset=&Orderby=
Vantage VGC750 - 1/2 G Series CCTV Camera Day/Night - 3yr warranty for £199.
480 Line, 0.5 Lux, DD, AMP, BLC, IR Responsive 240Vac
* 480 TVL
* IR Pass Filter
* 0.5 Lux (F1.2)
* 4 mode backlight compensation
* Camera ID Function
* Cat5 Video Output/Comp Video Output* Available in 12v/24Vac VGC752
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept...k/cs_camera.htm
True Day/Night C/CS mount Camera
Model 45CSHR-12 £95 Special
Sony Super HAD CCD 500TVL High Res
Auto Iris will accept Manual, direct or video drive lens.
With 3.5-8mm direct drive lens £125
1/3" Sony super HAD CCD 500TVL High Res
0.01 lux at F1.2
12V DC
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept...k/cs_camera.htm
True day/night C/CS mount camera
Model 45CSHRX £115
Sony EXVIEW HAD 500TVL High RES.
Auto Iris will accept Manual, direct or video lens
with 3.5-8mm direct drive lens £135
1/3" Sony EXVIEW HAD CCD 500TVL
0.001 lux at F1.2
12VDC
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/colour_sony_ir.htm
IR x 49ea-CC70CSHRX-4IR
Sony EXVIEW HADA CDD £155
Fixed focal 4.3mm, 8mm, or 12mm lens
0 Lux at no illumination
850nm (long range) IR LEDs x 49ea
12VDC/ 1A required for high power IR
cable attached with waterproof connector
------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept...m-bullet-bw.htm
Model 19BW
Quality camera -1/3" CCD
Waterproof
Fixed focus lens
Good low light capability, 0.05lux
Hori. 420 TV-line
Auto-iris controlled by electronic system
Aluminium housing, Black
Complete with bracket
CCIR format
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.rfconcept..._colour_ccd.htm
21CWSHRX (High Res EXVIEW (low light) Sony CCD £145
High Res, 1/3", DSP color CCD (Sony Super HAD)
480 TV Lines
0.5 Lux at F2.0
0.1 Lux at 2.0 (EX-View version)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
,Mike
Edited by matopia, 20 January 2006 - 01:42 PM.
#59
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Posted 20 January 2006 - 05:09 PM
If you need I.R then the CC70 from R.F. is a good unit, we have used hundreds of them.
Speak to R.F about which lens you require (ask for Roy or Billy)
Beware of spiders with this camera tho.
Speak to R.F about which lens you require (ask for Roy or Billy)
Beware of spiders with this camera tho.
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Posted 21 January 2006 - 06:33 AM
baywatch, on Jan 20 2006, 05:09 PM, said:
If you need I.R then the CC70 from R.F. is a good unit, we have used hundreds of them.
Beware of spiders with this camera tho.
Beware of spiders with this camera tho.
Tell me about it!! They are a pain in the 'arris
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