56 replies to this topic

[morph]

This topic has been started due to concern that some members have shown over fitting CCTV in Schools and Nursery's, what do you all think? is this wright or wrong ?

What special measure should we take fitting CCTV to areas like these?

[Brian c]

I have opinions on 2 matters.

The principle. It's fine by me. There's no more (if not, less) risk to your child in a nursery covered by CCTV, than from a pervert watching a playground.

However, my only concern is the installation. I believe the installer should be vetted. Although, if work is carried out under supervision or out of hours, I don't really see a problem.

[morph]

How would you propose to vet them, weren't two policemen convicted of crimes the other day involving children?

[black knight]

My son is has been in nursery since he was 4 months old (he now 3).
The nursery he is in is Ofsted inspected etc and they have CCTV cameras throughout the nursery as well as in Car park and adjacent front /rear doors.
As an parent i have always liked this - i know that everything that goes on at the nursery is monitored so should ,god forbid, anything happen then there will be CCTV evidence.
I asked the staff what they thought about the cameras and the general consensus was that after a few initial concerns they have just forget they are there and they look at them as an insurance policy for themselves - ie if there any complaints as to their actions they can just say to any aggrieved parent watch the CCTV video and judge for yourself.

on the subject of who fits it i would have assumed that the necessary authority's of a properly run nursery would have insisted on all companies being vetted as a matter of course where children are concerned.
Most installations are done as nursery is being built so babies/kids won,t be in residence and any work done after "opening" would have to be done out of hours or by special arrangement. No nursery manager in their right mind is going to let engineer loose with drills etc whilst kids are running around!!

paul

[Brian c]

alarmgard, on Mar 13 2005, 02:48 PM, said:

How would you propose to vet them, weren't two policemen convicted of crimes the other day involving children?

I would propose vetting to BS7858 and CRB checks, as Nova Security pointed out.
Not sure what crimes you're referring to. I know what you mean though, there is no guarantee, just minimising risk.

[morph]

Quote

BS7858 and CRB checks,

I would agree, but nothing is fullproof and if you look at the Government and its imigration fiasco, who checks the checkers?

Dont think you could prevent a problem, but if you do your best to endure that the installers are reputable then what more can you do, after all we dont really have access to full criminal reccords and not forgetting the Rehabillitation of offenders act.

[morph]

Police Checks yes or no, conclusive vetting then.

Eng you need to get out more, sorry to burst your bubble but Vetting doesn't cure the problems your trying to prevent. The original topic never made any refference to whether they actually vet installers or not, you simply went off on one before finding out the facts.

How do you know the staff in the School or Nursery are okay, simply because a CRB records check says so, I dont think so. There was the school Janitor in Soham that was locked up for murder, surley he would have been checked out before he was employed.

What about the security gaurds using building CCTV to view playgrounds and houses etc doesn't the same principal apply or would vetting have solved the problem.

Theres problems in everthing we do in life, if we harp on about them nothing will ever get solved.

[Rich]

Trying to keep on topic, with respect to Nursery's and Schools.
What are peoples ideas and opinions of, for and against issues?

For
Protect crucial equipment from theft and vandalism.
Protection for staff and pupils with usefulness of video evidence.
Protection from outsiders.

Against
The possibilities off the misuse of information.
Possible effects it has on the people being monitored.

From experience work is generally done out of hours, or accompanied by a caretaker throughout.

Don't forget Schools close for long periods for holidays, most maintenance work is done during those periods.

Generally established companies will be invited in.

[Rich]

Eng, on Mar 13 2005, 07:58 PM, said:

thats why its a police check..they tell the employer yes or no to whether they are suitable for work in the industry...and this debate started as to if it was right or wrong re dialling into the system and watching the kids..at least if someone was hanging around the school gates they would be challenged or beaten up depending where you live.. all school should have cctv but in house only with a dedicated user which being in a school should have been police checked..

The uses of CCTV in a Nursery for the purposes of allowing parents with their children to be monitored remotely while their child is at the nursery is very different from opening up a Schools internal CCTV system to the internet.
School CCTV is usually kept in a secure office and monitored by office staff with limited access. It is generally used to monitor corridors, outside grounds and expensive equipment i.e. computer rooms.

I cant think of any viable reasons a schools CCTV system should have remote access. And I think you will find anyone involved in a Schools CCTV system wouldn't be there without first having the relevant checks.

Edited by Rich, 13 March 2005 - 08:43 PM.

[morph]

Quote

The uses of CCTV in a Nursery for the purposes of allowing parents with their children to be monitored remotely while their child is at the nursery is very different from opening up a Schools internal CCTV system to the internet.

Exactly, rather than looking for complications, if the product was taken and understood as it was being sold. where is the Problem, if parents can only view the kids when they are paying for child care.

[Chris Teague]

[/QUOTE] Exactly, rather than looking for complications, if the product was taken and understood as it was being sold. where is the Problem, if parents can only view the kids when they are paying for child care. [QUOTE]

First of all, I don't have a problem with the use of CCTV in Schools or Nursery's, but admit to a mild amount of discomfort regarding the remote viewing bit. With secure & authorised only access (parents / guardians only), I'm more for it than against it.

My concerns are with Colin's "paying" comment, whereby I would have a problem if the nursery tried to pass on such costs for the facility in my childs care fee's.

Must admit, it near cripples me each month having to pay for two kids in a nursery (one full time & one using the after School club), as both the missus & I work full time.

Call me cynical, but if I were running a nursery, this would be more for my own / business protection than for the facility / novelty of parents being able to see the kids playing in the nursery.

And yes, the screening bit, not a lot of confidence I'm afraid. Just cus you have a 10 year continuous & checkable history without any criminal record does not make all persons suitable for employemnt in my opinion. I've met plenty of people in this industry who are dishonest and out to screw all they can from people.

Chris

Edited by Chris Teague, 13 March 2005 - 09:22 PM.

[morph]

Quote

My concerns are with Colin's "paying" comment, whereby I would have a problem if the nursery tried to pass on such costs for the facility in my childs care fee's.

Chris I meant paying Nursery fee's not as an addditional charge, more as a value added service within the nursery package. If you paying fees then your child is using the nursery, if your not then you dont get access to the nursery or the pictures.

[Chris Teague]

Quote

Chris I meant paying Nursery fee's not as an addditional charge, more as a value added service within the nursery package. If you paying fees then your child is using the nursery, if your not then you dont get access to the nursery or the pictures.

Col, I think I knew what you meant mate, I was going off on one over the fee's bit

Mind you, plenty of parents get government funding for part or all care these day's, so not wanting to spilt hairs, they would be just as entitled to access would they not?

[ian.cant]

I would just like to throw a spanner in the works here as i think some of you are talking pants.

At what point should the cut off be for vetting?

There lots of people who visit a nursery or school at some point during a day, some will be there for a few moments and some for a lot longer.
Some will visit when a nursery or school is open and some when there are no rugrats around.
Some will be there on business, some wont be, are you going to vet everyone regardless or just some and where do you draw the line?

[Chris Teague]

It's a good spanner Ian.

There's the postie, the milkie etc etc. Oh my god, what about the parents too? How many parents with their kid's at the nursery / school have had a rumble with the law?

The possibilities are never ending

[ian.cant]

Chris Teague, on Mar 13 2005, 09:55 PM, said:

It's a good spanner Ian.

There's the postie, the milkie etc etc. Oh my god, what about the parents too? How many parents with their kid's at the nursery / school have had a rumble with the law?

The possibilities are never ending 

Not to mention the granny, the dustbinman, the window cleaner...............

I was thinking more along the lines of WHY should i need to be vetted to install a cctv system in a school or nursery during closed hours?
Vetting for installing an alarm system is understandable in any premises but a cctv system is totally different.

[Brian c]

Short visits are accompanied/escorted. Maintenance in most trades are generally left to it though.

[Brian c]

ian.cant, on Mar 13 2005, 10:07 PM, said:

I was thinking more along the lines of WHY should i need to be vetted to install a cctv system in a school or nursery during closed hours?

I don't know aout anyone else, but that's not what I was getting at.