xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Hi all, I have a Eurosec CPX system which I installed about 10 years ago. It has proved very reliable, and until recently, never given a false alarm. Because the property is in a remote location in a different country I have also fitted a gsm dialler so I get a text when it gets triggered. Over the last few months, the alarm has been triggered several times, and I think this may be related to local power cuts. When I last visited the property the RKP had 'watchdog reset' logged, and the date reverted back to Jan 1. I fitted a new battery less than a year ago, the largest I could squeeze into the panel. My question is, would/should a power failure and or discharged battery trigger a full alarm? Any info greatly appreciated :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Can do , and a discharged battery can cause the watchdog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 What model dialler? It is possible that the dialler will trigger when the power restores not upon the power cut itself. However, locally the alarm would sound upon low battery and any SCB/SAB would trigger when the system dies completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 Thanks guys, the dialler is this one: https://www.adventcontrols.co.uk/products/gsm-cell-phone-dialer-sms-sender-fire-burglar-alarms I have it wired to the output terminals so will text me when alarm bells are triggered. There are some other outputs on it which I plan to use to inform me when power is lost/restored, but I've yet to wire this in, I need to sort the ongoing issues first. I think it's unlikely that the dialler is triggered when power is lost/restored at the moment though, it just triggers on 'bells on'. This doesn't happen when I simulate a power cut/restoration, so I'm assuming it only happens after a prolonged power cut. Is a total power loss caused by powercut and subsequent discharged battery the only reason for the watchdog to occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 The advent dialler will trigger if on power up of the panel it's output switches , although lol the panels I have used it on never have done this with the advent dialler I think your confusing the two issues by talking about the dialler being triggered and the power fault As I don't get why swb responded about dialler as opposed to the power issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, al-yeti said: As I don't get why swb responded about dialler as opposed to the power issue I answered the question, that's generally what you do when asked one. If I was asked why do you think there are local power cuts then maybe my answer would be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Sorry dude your making this up , question isn't about dialler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I read it all again you are making it up, it's about power , the dialler just happens to trigger Are you a Real Alarm man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Maybe I was considering if the dialler had a built in battery and if it was positive or negative trigger? It helps to know what is installed before assuming things. 3 hours ago, xt600 said: My question is, would/should a power failure and or discharged battery trigger a full alarm? This is the original question that I answered, is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 I suppose my questions are: 1: Is a total power loss caused by a powercut and subsequent discharged battery the only reason for the watchdog to occur? 2: Will a powercut resulting in low battery voltage always trigger a full alarm? (seems strange to waste remaining battery power by turning on all bells when there isn't actually a break-in, or sensor activated?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, sixwheeledbeast said: Maybe I was considering if the dialler had a built in battery and if it was positive or negative trigger? It helps to know what is installed before assuming things. This is the original question that I answered, is it not? Yeah dude , we different angle, and I speak with forked tongue 41 minutes ago, xt600 said: I suppose my questions are: 1: Is a total power loss caused by a powercut and subsequent discharged battery the only reason for the watchdog to occur? 2: Will a powercut resulting in low battery voltage always trigger a full alarm? (seems strange to waste remaining battery power by turning on all bells when there isn't actually a break-in, or sensor activated?) Triggering you mean intruder trigger or bell trigger Bell output and intruder outputs can be different on some panels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 Besides the watchdog what else is in the log, if you look further back it will tell you what time day the mains failed, therefore you can work out if its a complete power failure causing the problem or if its getting spiked when the power comes back on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 48 minutes ago, xt600 said: Is a total power loss caused by a powercut and subsequent discharged battery the only reason for the watchdog to occur? I don't know the controls but I don't expect the system should be throwing watchdog messages due to a complete power loss and battery drained. A watchdog is a general term in electronics for the systems processes are no longer responsive and therefore the system has triggered a reboot, this leaves watchdog message in any logfiles/event logs. There could be any number of causes but most I have seen come back to unstable mains, electrical spikes or very rarely faulty controls. PJ is correct you need to look in the log for events around the watchdog also worth checking the voltages with a meter. 48 minutes ago, xt600 said: Will a powercut resulting in low battery voltage always trigger a full alarm? (seems strange to waste remaining battery power by turning on all bells when there isn't actually a break-in, or sensor activated?) Yes, it is considered to the panel that the system has been tampered or is about to be. If armed it will be a full alarm, if disarmed it would be internals only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, al-yeti said: Triggering you mean intruder trigger or bell trigger Bell output and intruder outputs can be different on some panels My panel has a sab output, to which the external bell box is connected. It also has a bell output, to which I have connected 3 internal sounders, and the dialler. I assume in the event of an alarm both these outputs are triggered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 1 hour ago, PeterJames said: Besides the watchdog what else is in the log, if you look further back it will tell you what time day the mains failed, therefore you can work out if its a complete power failure causing the problem or if its getting spiked when the power comes back on. I'm pretty sure that when this happens, the log is wiped and no other events are recorded. I certainly couldn't find any last time it happened but will try again next time I visit the property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 I do recall the log reporting 'battery volts low' on occasions before this started happening. I fitted a new battery, but am now wondering whether the battery I fitted was as good as it should be (could've been collecting dust in the shop for too long!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 11 minutes ago, xt600 said: My panel has a sab output, to which the external bell box is connected. It also has a bell output, to which I have connected 3 internal sounders, and the dialler. I assume in the event of an alarm both these outputs are triggered. I wonder if the devices are pulling the output down depending on sounder current Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, al-yeti said: I wonder if the devices are pulling the output down depending on sounder current I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I do know that there is 1Amp available on the bell output (1A fuse protected) and I have 3 loud sounders embedded into the ceilings, not sure what they are pulling but they've never blown the fuse :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 33 minutes ago, xt600 said: I'm pretty sure that when this happens, the log is wiped and no other events are recorded. I certainly couldn't find any last time it happened but will try again next time I visit the property. All events leading up to watchdog should be there, I am fairly certain of this I removed an NVM (Non Volatile Memory) from a panel that had been in a burned down building in order to read the log from it, it told me everything that had happened prior to watchdog. And that panel had been subject to extreme temperature and water ingress. It was from a slightly bigger panel than a CPX but I am sure that the CPX boasts a 200 event log NVM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, PeterJames said: All events leading up to watchdog should be there, I am fairly certain of this I removed an NVM (Non Volatile Memory) from a panel that had been in a burned down building in order to read the log from it, it told me everything that had happened prior to watchdog. And that panel had been subject to extreme temperature and water ingress. It was from a slightly bigger panel than a CPX but I am sure that the CPX boasts a 200 event log NVM. Thanks PJ, I'll take another look at this when I visit in a few weeks. I'm hoping you're right as it may well help diagnose the problems I'm having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aissecur Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 When you next visit maybe worth taking your multimeter to ensure all the voltages the panel is outputting are correct & within tolerance.. If you have a phone line at the property I seem to think you can remote dial into the panel (Like you can on the 595 / 600 panels), that may help you get a better understanding if your such a log distance away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 07:27, aissecur said: When you next visit maybe worth taking your multimeter to ensure all the voltages the panel is outputting are correct & within tolerance.. If you have a phone line at the property I seem to think you can remote dial into the panel (Like you can on the 595 / 600 panels), that may help you get a better understanding if your such a log distance away Yes, I'll definitely check the voltages, no phone line at the property though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just another point I would not recommend installing a battery bigger than 3.4Ah the PSU is only about 1amp the current draw on a flat 7Ah will knacker the psu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt600 Posted January 11, 2018 Author Share Posted January 11, 2018 22 hours ago, PeterJames said: Just another point I would not recommend installing a battery bigger than 3.4Ah the PSU is only about 1amp the current draw on a flat 7Ah will knacker the psu That's an interesting point. The battery is the biggest I could squeeze in, bigger than the original. When you say knacker the PSU, what do you mean? Wouldn't a PSU either 'work or not work' and if it's not working, then the battery would be completely dead by now wouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 A flat 7 Ah will want more power to recharge than the psu can provide unless very lightly loaded Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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