Eugene's DIY Den Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 So a lot of my contacts need to be replaced, most of them on windows which are never really opened. A few are on doors and windows which are regularly opened. The switches are sticking closed. Is this typical if the reed switches aren't "exercised"?, or did I just get low standard switches when I installed my alarm almost 20 years ago? Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amps Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 41 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: standard switches when I installed my alarm almost 20 years ago? I think these contacts have done you proud. Time to replace them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Two more questions! Do magnets lose their strength over the years. I tested a new contact I replaced with both the old and new magnet. Both contacts opened when the magnet on the window moved outwards 1 cm. It's probably good practice to replace both contact and magnet? Second question: The PVC windows have a chamfered edge, so I can't butt the contact up against the magnet because it would be proud of the window opening and likely to get knocked if anything is passed through the window. At the moment, the contact only opens when the casement is pushed out 1 cm. Tapping the contact hard doesn't seem to open it when the window is closed, so the reed switch seems to be securely closed. Do you think this is good enough, or am I going to have problems down the line with nuisance triggering because the pair aren't close enough? Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 46 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: So a lot of my contacts need to be replaced, most of them on windows which are never really opened. A few are on doors and windows which are regularly opened. The switches are sticking closed. Is this typical if the reed switches aren't "exercised"?, or did I just get low standard switches when I installed my alarm almost 20 years ago? The reed is just little bit of metal in glass tube.... I reckon most of the branded alarm contact manufactures buy in the same Reeds... The gases escapes for the glass tube & they either FA or just fail (open or closed) I suspect those the fail early have been thrown around or the screws knocked in with a hammer when fitted 2 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: Two more questions! Do magnets lose their strength over the years. I tested a new contact I replaced with both the old and new magnet. Both contacts opened when the magnet on the window moved outwards 1 cm. It's probably good practice to replace both contact and magnet? Second question: The PVC windows have a chamfered edge, so I can't butt the contact up against the magnet because it would be proud of the window opening and likely to get knocked if anything is passed through the window. At the moment, the contact only opens when the casement is pushed out 1 cm. Tapping the contact hard doesn't seem to open it when the window is closed, so the reed switch seems to be securely closed. Do you think this is good enough, or am I going to have problems down the line with nuisance triggering because the pair aren't close enough? IIRC 13mm operating gap, thats look way too far apart 3 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 1 minute ago, MrHappy said: The reed is just little bit of metal in glass tube.... I reckon most of the branded alarm contact manufactures buy in the same Reeds... The gases escapes for the glass tube & they either FA or just fail (open or closed) I suspect those the fail early have been thrown around or the screws knocked in with a hammer when fitted I fitted the contacts, so there was TLC involved! However they seemed to fail after a few years on the windows which weren't opened. The currents involved are only milliamps, so they hardly weld closed? Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lwillis Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: I fitted the contacts, so there was TLC involved! However they seemed to fail after a few years on the windows which weren't opened. The currents involved are only milliamps, so they hardly weld closed? The metal pins inside the glass tube just doesn’t Spring back. Replace the contacts job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, MrHappy said: IIRC 13mm operating gap, thats look way too far apart The bottom edge of the magnet to the closest edge of the contact is 11mm. Edited October 10, 2017 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: The bottom edge of the magnet to the closest edge of the contact is 11mm. there on surfaces which are stepped apart, a "chunky contact" does 30-40mm gap I wouldn't fit then in the locations you've got 1 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MrHappy said: there on surfaces which are stepped apart, a "chunky contact" does 30-40mm gap I wouldn't fit then in the locations you've got What would be the consequences of spacing the pair this far apart? Edited October 10, 2017 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 If the gap is too wide the reed may not close / may open after a period of being set Depending on the case design you mage be able to double up the magnets which give them more "pull" Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, MrHappy said: If the gap is too wide the reed may not close / may open after a period of being set Depending on the case design you mage be able to double up the magnets which give them more "pull" I could probably piggy-back the magnets and use long screws. I would prefer to keep the contacts off the chamfer if possible, plus the wiring would have to be stretched (mightn't be possible) , plus holes where the contacts were, left visible in the window. About 22 pairs are like this. Edited October 10, 2017 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: I could probably piggy-back the magnets and use long screws. I would prefer to keep the contacts off the chamfer if possible, plus the wiring would have to be stretched (mightn't be possible) , plus holes where the contacts were, left visible in the window. About 22 pairs are like this. Looking at that frame it's messed up, you could drill in and out from the chamfer if your going enough If you ever remove the contacts which I doubt you can always have all the upvc repaired these days but if it's your windows you can do as you need to www.upvcdoctor.co.uk They normally charge for a set of windows in the big scheme of things it's cheaper than trying replace or bodge it yourself Or similar companies that was an example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Replaced all the contacts two months ago in the same position. Haven't had any issues with false alarms. Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 (edited) Going to back to what H said earlier, didn't Ade, or maybe the Knight's chap, once imply that reeds are no longer made in the UK and the 2 qualities are basically 'USA or China' with nothing inbetween, as it were? I think he also said that often quantities needed dictated ordering from both areas more often than not, so there is no easy way of knowing where your reed came from in your otherwise 'UK made' contact. I have had loads of failures, usually stuck closed, with those Ventcroft 'Premium' contacts, I don't use them any more, shame as they are a nice looking surface contact with easy EoL and a decent tamper spring. I use Knights for surface inc. industrial and RSD etc... and Elmdene circular Quickfits for flush. Edited December 15, 2017 by datadiffusion Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 I know one company in the South East who makes reeds that are used in the alarm trade Quote Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 Fair enough then! Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 53 minutes ago, magpye said: I know one company in the South East who makes reeds that are used in the alarm trade Great for brexit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 15 minutes ago, al-yeti said: Great for brexit & also brentry ? Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted December 15, 2017 Share Posted December 15, 2017 49 minutes ago, MrHappy said: & also brentry ? New regs yeah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 After over a year and a half since I posted this, several more contacts have stuck (on windows that are never opened). Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: After over a year and a half since I posted this, several more contacts have stuck (on windows that are never opened). I would say common on those standard contacts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, al-yeti said: I would say common on those standard contacts Anyway I'm adding a few PIR's to act as backup (and implementing an exercise schedule for the windows ). Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Everything should be tested once a month on the user walk test anyway? Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 11 hours ago, james.wilson said: Everything should be tested once a month on the user walk test anyway? User test every 10years or never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aechlin Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Why do you need 22 contacts anyway? You only need to put them on external entries/exits, let the PIR's do their job. Alistair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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