scrimshanker Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Hi all, just thinking what constant bit rate you all use all use as a standard for your ip camera installs i guess some of you use a variable bit rate, but with that how do you work out your storage needs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 A piece of String can be any length you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 How insightful! but what is the best length of string for perfect images while conserving storage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Its different for every camera, every scene, every budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 Is it? surely you have a default standard, a basic setting you know the image will be satisfactory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 Depends if budget is low then not much rate eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) If budget is lower but the customer still has a target for image retention duration, i would offer the option of switching on h264+ and dropping the bit rate, but the drop in image quality is noticable, i try to steer them to spending that bit extra on the additional storage and often succeed but some are already stretching their budget. Thats one consideration, another is available upload bandwidth if the customer want's to remote view the main stream. Edited March 19, 2017 by petrolhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 hours ago, scrimshanker said: Is it? surely you have a default standard, a basic setting you know the image will be satisfactory? What resolution? What encoding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 1080p h.264 25fps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 how many cameras do you want to record, and how long for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Oh it's not for a project it's just for information I was just wondering if people had a default set up which they use for most systems. After all most will need 31 days retention and 25 fps if they want real looking footage. So it's the bit rate that determines the storage/image quality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 It all depends on the requirements thats why everything is adjustable. Bigger HDD are cheap nowadays so we normally set it to the highest possible setting depending on how many cameras and the amount of days required and the size of the HDD. Nobody has a crystal ball (not one that reliably works anyway) so nobody can predict when they are going to need to look at theyre CCTV to see what happened in the past. In most cases its after their car got broken into, or they were burgled, or a neighbour was burgled, or an incident that happened that day or within a few days. So ideally you need good recordings for the first couple of weeks at least. We rarely use 25fps on domestics in most cases 10fps will gather enough info, I drop the bitrate if we are not achieving the days required on motion detect. At home I have two recorders a cheap one recording the sub stream and the premium one recording the main stream. I get about 2.5 weeks on the premium, I figured if I hadnt noticed something that happened anytime over two weeks it wont be that important. However, just in case, the cheap NVR which still records better than my old analogue system for 2 months. It works well for me I might try selling that idea to my customers sell two recorders = more dosh. As a bonus to security one recorder is in an out building so it would be difficult to steal both before the Police arrive if I were burgled, so its win win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 If you use ip cameras you could use sd cards in the camera as a backup for stolen nvr. Or use it as edge recording on something like a milestone vms The whole motion vs continuous is an interesting one. Everyone uses motion for storage saving but isn't it better to have continuous for business customers? You could miss the action with motion depending on settings as environment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 what on earth do you need 25fps for you making a film? 2 Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 2 hours ago, scrimshanker said: If you use ip cameras you could use sd cards in the camera as a backup for stolen nvr. Or use it as edge recording on something like a milestone vms The whole motion vs continuous is an interesting one. Everyone uses motion for storage saving but isn't it better to have continuous for business customers? You could miss the action with motion depending on settings as environment Cheaper recorders only record on motion Our recorder records all the time but only saves motion, we can set it to save up to 30 seconds before and after the motion, I have yet to have an incident missed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Have you ever tried sd cards as edge storage? the cards don't last. even the expensive mlc cards you are lucky to get a year out them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Typically I'd go around 6fps 1024k continuous record and 25fps 4096k on motion. when trying to view a bump in a car park or someone palming a note instead of putting it in the cash drawer the extra frames help. some just go to 12fps and 2048k, it really all depends. much of my stuff is 3,4 and 8 megapixel anyway and for some reason it's more scene dependant as you go up in resolution, put an estimate in and tweak until perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Thank you petrolhead first actually answer. I totally agree with the extra frames (25fps) it's easy to lower but you can easily miss the frame with the impact etc. Then you just have before and after. The scene completely is something that has a massive effect on storage. I worked on a police detention centre project and the flooring was hardened resin, which had different flecks in it. So the camera saw a constantly changing image even with an empty cell! At night with the ir on it was even worse. Its a complete lottery at times, we had cameras at 6Mbps and the image was average, but that was more the camera. They only had 86 cameras and set to 1Mbps 96TB wasn't enough. Turns out windows, which the vms was working on needs 40Gbs per camera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 So you are confirming my actual point that hard figures don't apply if you are doing it properly, every situation should be assesed individually there is no one size fits all. That is the first actually answer which was post 2 in the thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 29 minutes ago, petrolhead said: So you are confirming my actual point that hard figures don't apply if you are doing it properly, every situation should be assesed individually there is no one size fits all. That is the first actually answer which was post 2 in the thread. TBF Thats what we all said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I know that, but he is saying that was the first actually answer on the thread, i was saying the correct answer came way sooner than that. The correct answer also came from many sources, but still we seem to be getting mixed gibberish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 4 hours ago, petrolhead said: Typically continuous record and 25fps 4096k I 2 minutes ago, petrolhead said: I know that, but he is saying that was the first actually answer on the thread, i was saying the correct answer came way sooner than that. The correct answer also came from many sources, but still we seem to be getting mixed gibberish. im guessing that the quote above is what he was waiting to hear, everything else did not really make sense as none of the other figures fitted. Which is fine horses for courses but why bother asking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 I was asking if you had a standard bit rate you set your camera installs too.. i understand you say every install is different but they aren't, most fit a standard when it comes to bit rate resolution and frame complexity i asked what bit rates you use as standard and your first reply petrolhead didn't include this, in fact no ones did! Just the usually rubbish about making people feel superior 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Are you hard of thinking or what? Most don't fit to a standard, every reply you have had states that. There isn't a standard. The only ones who have a one size fits all standard are the donkey have-a-go chancers that plague this industry who just leave the setting at whatever factory default is because they have no idea what the setting does. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrimshanker Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Or is it the arrogance of so called professionals that plaque the industry of course there here is many cases that one solution is a starting point! we're not all newbies here ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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