Michaelangelo999 Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Hi, For a new build, I'm going to be installing a fully wired Texecom Premier Elite as the burglar alarm. Just wondering what people's thoughts are on using it also as a Fire Alarm/Detection system and how to deal with the sounders. It is for a large house (over 200Sqm per floor). My issue is mainly regarding the numerous sounders needed, the installation will have about 10 - 15 smoke detectors to meet the LD2 system required. All Texecoms wired detectors appear to not include a sounder (other than their wireless one). Does anyone have a good solution to this - i.e. know of other wired smoke/Co2/heat detectors which would be suitable for the Premier Elite and also include a loud speaker and ideally being total of 4 wire or less (if even possible) so that it can use FP200 4 core cable? I could put sounders just in the landing spaces, but my worry is that this wouldn't be loud enough. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 get a proper fire or proper interlinked smoke alarms Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo999 Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, MrHappy said: get a proper fire or proper interlinked smoke alarms Thought about that...is it for the issues I've mentioned or due to complexity/reliability with combining it into the Premier? Here's the issues with a separate or interlinked ... Interlinked unfortunately is not allowed due to building regs (as each floor is over 200SqM, it has to have central control panel). Whilst Building Control have said they will allow such in my instance, the electricians will not sign such off. Other than not knowing where the fire is with interlinked, I think interlinked has huge pro's in terms of no single point of failure and a siren for each detector. Nest is an option for area notification, but I'd have to consider the mains wiring being that the electricians will not sign this off. In regards to a separate central system for Fire only, I like the Texecom solution as I'll have keypads dotted around so would get a quick visual on where the fire is without having to go to the central fire panel (which will likely be in a closet). Feels like quite a dilemma - surely this isn't too un-common and there's a great solution out there ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo999 Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 52 minutes ago, MrHappy said: get a proper fire or proper interlinked smoke alarms I could install a few sound bombs which would be much louder (and I think is intermittent sound for fire). Your comment seems to suggest it's perhaps not a good idea to use the Premier though as a 'proper' fire alarm system - would be keen to hear what your reasons are, I do want it to be a good (and very robust) system, but ideally with quick identification of where the fire is. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 the sound bombs require remote power The prem is not a proper fire panel If you want 'proper' fire then use proper fire kit. DO NOT use intruder gear in a fire alarm 1 Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 2 hours ago, Michaelangelo999 said: I could install a few sound bombs which would be much louder (and I think is intermittent sound for fire). Your comment seems to suggest it's perhaps not a good idea to use the Premier though as a 'proper' fire alarm system - would be keen to hear what your reasons are, I do want it to be a good (and very robust) system, but ideally with quick identification of where the fire is. Thanks Proper fire alarm kit isn't that expensive Then us a relay output to trigger the prem 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 3 hours ago, Michaelangelo999 said: Thought about that...is it for the issues I've mentioned or due to complexity/reliability with combining it into the Premier? Here's the issues with a separate or interlinked ... Interlinked unfortunately is not allowed due to building regs (as each floor is over 200SqM, it has to have central control panel). Whilst Building Control have said they will allow such in my instance, the electricians will not sign such off. Other than not knowing where the fire is with interlinked, I think interlinked has huge pro's in terms of no single point of failure and a siren for each detector. Nest is an option for area notification, but I'd have to consider the mains wiring being that the electricians will not sign this off. In regards to a separate central system for Fire only, I like the Texecom solution as I'll have keypads dotted around so would get a quick visual on where the fire is without having to go to the central fire panel (which will likely be in a closet). Feels like quite a dilemma - surely this isn't too un-common and there's a great solution out there ?? Get another electrician to sign off or do the interlinked bit Total blag , what's reason they won't sign off an Interlinked system ? They only signing of electrical part , all down ra , where's doc cubit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 7 hours ago, Michaelangelo999 said: Your comment seems to suggest it's perhaps not a good idea to use the Premier though as a 'proper' fire alarm system - would be keen to hear what your reasons are, Its not fit for purpose, 7 hours ago, Michaelangelo999 said: I do want it to be a good (and very robust) system, but ideally with quick identification of where the fire is. analogue addressable fire alarm system, if you've a half decent architect or project manager you'll should have already been advised of this 1 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) McMansion on a budget for someone that can't quite afford it? Edited February 21, 2017 by datadiffusion 1 1 Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo999 Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 (edited) Thanks all for your comments, The electrician's said they won't sign it off as they will only do work which conforms to building regs regardless if Building Control approve a variation. I thought they just effectively signed off Part P and not Part B. Potentially they're creating less work for themselves as they would not necessarily be fitting the centralized fire alarm (just power to it), yet they would have been fitting the interlinked cable otherwise. I think separate panel it is (and as al-yeti says - linked to the Premier) .. any recommendations on a good system? Edited February 21, 2017 by Michaelangelo999 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlec Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Hi Michael Your house requires a system designed and installed to Grade A LD2 which is a full fire alarm system. Your electricians are right not to get involved in something that will not conform to building regulations. You should have been made aware of this at the design stage along with costs. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo999 Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Simlec said: Hi Michael Your house requires a system designed and installed to Grade A LD2 which is a full fire alarm system. Your electricians are right not to get involved in something that will not conform to building regulations. You should have been made aware of this at the design stage along with costs. Thanks, I was initially advised it needs Grade B, LD2 .. are you sure it's Grade A , The architect and BC both initially specc'd it at design stage as Grade B, and then...still at design stage they approved it to not require grade B such to allow it to be interlinked. However A and B has a single point of failure in the central system (worse - if it set on fire itself, as rare as that may be) unlike battery backed up interlinked which has no single point of failure - so where I'm protecting my family I want the best solution and that's where BC have agreed interlinked is better for my situation. Think of it like this...what is better, 10 security guards each with a megaphone and a walkie talkie (equivalent of interlinked) or 1 security guard with 9 CCTV screens and a megaphone (centralised system)? It's somewhat a grey area for the electricians ... I agree, I just want a solution that is safe and best for my family and I simply have no good defense as to why for a one family dewlling that centralised is better than interlinked....I would welcome any defense here as I really would like someone to give a good reason why a robust interlinked is a worse solution to a cheaper centralised system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlec Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 They both should be working to BS 5839-6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo999 Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 Thanks for that Simlec ! How bizarre that both specced/requested Grade B - i don't think there's much difference with Grade A (but will check exactly what). whilst reluctant for the reasons above, I'm likely going to centralised now anyway and will probably add in some standalone detectors for peace of mind, so hopefully grade A won't make too much difference..will find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlec Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 As you can see Part B of building regs asks for grade B but from an out dated document. It should be BS 5839-6:2013 BS 5839-6:2013 supersedes BS 5839-6:2004, which is withdrawn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firemonkey Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Have you considered a small wireless fire alarm system? Something like a EMS Firecell - theres others out there and eliminates need for wiring once the spur is done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simlec Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 36 minutes ago, firemonkey said: Have you considered a small wireless fire alarm system? Something like a EMS Firecell - theres others out there and eliminates need for wiring once the spur is done A bit pointless on a new build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Are you fitting cctv? Put a camera looking at the panel display if you want to see which detector activated without going to the panel, or fit some repeater displays around the house. other alternative is wire the fire panels printer output to the nvrs serial port and set a camera up as POS capture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Fitted a couple of Rick O'Shea smokes the other day. I quite like them, they are like having stand alone smokes but with the added benefit of the wireless. I could see them being used for retrofitting in very small domestic max 3-4 points, even if the mesh drops off you have stand alone protection. Would be nice if there was option for external power tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaelangelo999 Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 On 21/02/2017 at 08:55, datadiffusion said: McMansion on a budget for someone that can't quite afford it? What sort of answer is that ? - you’re meant to be a moderator…McModerator that’s as useful as a chocolate fireguard ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 So what happened 6 years later? Hopefully, a stand alone fire system and not what the topic says... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, sixwheeledbeast said: So what happened 6 years later? I assume his McManison was built with stolen stuff & he's just got out of HMP Forest Bank ? 1 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, Michaelangelo999 said: What sort of answer is that ? - you’re meant to be a moderator…McModerator that’s as useful as a chocolate fireguard ! Not meant to be is a. Redirect your fireguard comment to admin. I have various models for sale some are chocolate but I prefer my barely used, one good owner never raced or rallied water ones. Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 16 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: So what happened 6 years later? Hopefully, a stand alone fire system and not what the topic says... Maybe bored in holidays going through emails... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 18 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: So what happened 6 years later? Hopefully, a stand alone fire system and not what the topic says... TBF its only gonna be a problem if theres a fire and a fatality.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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