CR Alarms Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 (edited) Hi guys I have a scantronic 9600 in my house, very old system I know but still works fine.I will be installing another bellbox for the back of my house (flashguard Xl). Ideally I would like this sounder on sab just like the front bell box which is also a flashguard xl for maximum volume. I am unsure how much current the bell and strobe output is for this panel? From the 9600 manual It says the maximum current that can be drawn from the system is 1250ma @20 degrees or 800@ 40 degrees ambient temperature. I have taken a current measurement for my alarm and it is 240ma in standby and 729ma in full alarm currently. So do you think it would be safe to install the second bellbox set to sab or will it likely trip the poly as soon as the panel triggers? Does anyone know from experience how much the bell/strobe polyfuse can tolerate on this system? My total current in alarm will soon be 1050ma if this new bell is set to sab, or 840ma if I set it scb. The flashguard in sab mode in full alarm and strobe draws 320ma in total, For scb mode it is 110ma. Any help would be appreciated on this thanks. Edited February 2, 2017 by CR Alarms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 You haven't thought about battery standby time for whatever battery you have. Would it last 12 hours with one activation on your standby battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR Alarms Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said: You haven't thought about battery standby time for whatever battery you have. Would it last 12 hours with one activation on your standby battery? Its a 7ah battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 only has to do 8 as its pre en Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR Alarms Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hi I will do my best to make it clearer as this is a very old system. Here is the specifications from the 9600 installation manual. Warning this might be long. Power Supply A. The total current available from the control panel is as follows System output current (Ambient temperature 20 degrees C) = 1250 mA System output current (Ambient temperature 40 degrees C) = 800 mA B. Alarm demand current To calculate the required current in an alarm condition. add all the current consumption of all detectors, sounders, strobes, communicators and any other devices wired to the system. This will provide the total alarm demand current. Subtract the alarm demand from the power supply output current. Any extra current requirement will be supplied by the battery in an alarm condition. Note that if the obattery is not capable of supplying the extra current it will be necessary to increase the size of the battery. The power supply will recharge a 6ah battery within the time specified in the British Standards for Intruder alarms. C Outputs The programmable outputs 1 and 2 are rated at up to 1 amp surge output. However, it is recommended that the continuous current drawn from these outputs does not exceed 500ma. Note these 2 programmable outputs are switched positive outputs,positive applied or positive removed, they are not a true 0v potential. So there you have it this is a clear as I can make it. There is no mention of what the bell and strobe are rated at. My standby current currently is 240mA and the full alarm current is 729mA. The battery in the panel is 7ah it is the biggest that will fit in the case. Flashguard bellbox in sab mode is 320mA total and in scb mode it is 110mA. When I fit this additional bellbox the total current for the system in full alarm will be 1049mA if the new bell is to sab, or 839mA total on scb. What I would like to know is will the bell/strobe output take this current or will it likely trip the poly when it alarms?. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hows the chip write doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 IC5 Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 lol Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I thought the 9600 - for some reason - didn't suffer in the same way as the 9800 with the EEPROM trouble, or am I talking bobbins? Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Can't remember tbf, you're probably right. Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Yes, it would be 8 for pre-EN. However, I was making the point that you can't just load a panel up to the maximum the PSU will take or the maximum from the manual then expect everything to be fine. There could be a 1.2Ah battery in there for all we know... The bell trig shouldn't have much extra load so you shouldn't overload the TRIG output. I wouldn't have two SAB's on any panel without additional PSU TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, datadiffusion said: I thought the 9600 - for some reason - didn't suffer in the same way as the 9800 with the EEPROM trouble, or am I talking bobbins? 9600 just died Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR Alarms Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 I told you the battery in the panel is a 7ah, you obviously didn't read my post properly, I gave you the whole spec for this panel. Never mind I will just run the second bell as an SCB just to keep the load to a minimum, 840mA sounds more reasonable. I would imagine the 40C 800mA ambient temparature part is redundant seeing as I do not live in spain and as panel is not mounted in the airing cupboard. One more come to think of it, is sab worth the extra fuss over an additional power supply? is scb still loud enough to scare someone off?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, CR Alarms said: I told you the battery in the panel is a 7ah, you obviously didn't read my post properly, I gave you the whole spec for this panel. Obviously an avid reader.. 1 Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR Alarms Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) Lol very funny, but can we get serious now please, I appreciate that you shouldn't load a panel up to its max rating and expect it to work fine. But this panel is rated to 1250mA the maximum current I will draw from it will be 1049mA in an alarm condition(if new souder is set to sab) so I would not be overloading the panel and I would have 201mA left to spare on the system, I appreciate that you shouldn't overload the bell output either that is why I would like to know it rating, I would of thought as you guys had experience of these systems you may know? In reality would this system cope with 1049mA in an alarm condition?. Could there be another way to drive this bell in sab? Perhaps draw its power from the aux supply outputs and use a small relay triggered by bell trigger so it will not load its output?. I would really like to avoid an additional power supply. Thanks Edited February 3, 2017 by CR Alarms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 i dont know the panel but outputs are usually 400mA or less Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 16 hours ago, CR Alarms said: I told you the battery in the panel is a 7ah, you obviously didn't read my post properly I did read your later post correctly. I was explaining the reasoning behind my initial post. Maybe re-read what I have posted as clearly the point of calculating standby time has gone unnoticed. 16 hours ago, CR Alarms said: I gave you the whole spec for this panel. Never mind I will just run the second bell as an SCB just to keep the load to a minimum, 840mA sounds more reasonable. There is no "spec" for the panel, merely some information copied from an old manual that is irrelevant to the point I was making above. Either way running the second bell as SCB would be the correct choice IMO. 16 hours ago, CR Alarms said: I would imagine the 40C 800mA ambient temparature part is redundant seeing as I do not live in spain and as panel is not mounted in the airing cupboard. You would have to measure the temperature of the cab with it shut to be certain. Can't imagine anything much above 30C even with poor air flow. 16 hours ago, CR Alarms said: One more come to think of it, is sab worth the extra fuss over an additional power supply? Probably not. 16 hours ago, CR Alarms said: is scb still loud enough to scare someone off?. Probably yes. 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: but can we get serious now please I am 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: I appreciate that you shouldn't load a panel up to its max rating and expect it to work fine. But this panel is rated to 1250mA the maximum current I will draw from it will be 1049mA in an alarm condition(if new souder is set to sab) so I would not be overloading the panel and I would have 201mA left to spare on the system, You shouldn't be loading it anywhere near maximum rating, as above. 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: appreciate that you shouldn't overload the bell output either that is why I would like to know it rating, I have already said, significant extra current will not be drawn from the bell trig for the extra sounder. 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: I would of thought as you guys had experience of these systems you may know? Plenty of experience with them, from the jokes above you can see most would have it heading for the skip. 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: In reality would this system cope with 1049mA in an alarm condition?. Maybe, I wouldn't try. There pretty bombproof from experience. 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: Could there be another way to drive this bell in sab? An additional PSU like explained 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: Perhaps draw its power from the aux supply outputs and use a small relay triggered by bell trigger so it will not load its output? Eh? How does that change the system output current. You can draw approx 1A from the panel, that would be the total of all the powered devices on the system. 3 hours ago, CR Alarms said: Thanks Anytime tl;dr - I would suggest you stick the bell up in SCB, make sure you connect your tampers between the bells correctly and move on to the next job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR Alarms Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Thank you, I am sorry if I offended you that was not my intention. I will run the second bellbox as an scb just to avoid any risks. I would imagine one slightly quieter sounder is much better than no alarm due to a tripped poly. In which case the total load in alarm will now be 840mA, does that sound more reasonable to you? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 If your an alarm co. you must be pulling out better controls out than your 9600? If your not check out my ebay a/c.... 2 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CR Alarms Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 6 minutes ago, MrHappy said: If your an alarm co. you must be pulling out better controls out than your 9600? If your not check out my ebay a/c.... lol yeah,no thanks but thanks anyway. The scantronic 9600 is just for my house only, it was already there when we moved in, I defaulted it and kept it maintained it all these years.I am a scantronic fan myself and usually fit 9651's and 9751's with risco pirs and either a flashguard xl or the novagard 2 for the bellbox. I wonder how old the scantronic 9600/9800 will be now? out of curiousity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 18 ish? Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 That doesn't make it legal... I remember finding a leaflet in the box saying it would 'soon be discontinued for the 808 / 816 / 840 range' when I bought a spare CCU in 97 Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, datadiffusion said: That doesn't make it legal... Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 so 20+ then, bet there isnt much left electronic that old in most houses Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 My Mrs has a couple of things. Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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