albertc30 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hi all. I have been working in the fire industry for the past 11 months now and love it. After going through college at the age of 35 for 3 years to become an electrician and passed C&G 2365 L2/L3 in electrical installations I now find myself in a totally different industry. Anyway, experience in not much and I keep building up confidence as the panels I service for this company as a sub-contractor (self-employed). Anyway, I have a friend here who has a small grill BBQ restaurant and he's got a Firedex 2202 Bi Wire, which in 11 months I have never encountered one. I have seen very old stuff but never one of these. As he would like me to have this tested, I said I would see what I could do. On an occasion and, as I was near by, I had a look at it and put it in test mode "34211" and went to check the MCP's. To my dismay, the panel started beeping but alarm did not sound. So I head to the panel to find that the panel is now in fault. Tested all 4 MCP's and all are taking the panel to fault mode and not in to fire mode. Even more, when I opened the panel I found that the EOL resistors are connected in parallel with the circuit at the panel and not at the end on the circuit, thus not monitoring the system. As I was doing some CCTV upgrades, I took the opportunity to check a cable in the loft to see if I'd left any slack as the outdoor camera is to be moved from it's location, I then found that a SD in the loft is missing. In all not good for an electrician who charges £50.00 per hour according to my friend. My question really is, why would or what would cause the panel to go into fault when testing the MCP? I could take this with my work colleges but conflict of interest, ops... Any help is dully appreciated. Many thanks. Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antinode Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Would hazard a guess that if it's a Bi-Wire (or 2 wire) system then maybe the call points are not compatible with that panel. Are they standard conventional call points? Could also be that you can use standard call points with the system, but they don't have a firing resistor built into them (ie old Short Circuit=Fire type), hence the fault indication on activation. Had this recently with a sparky installed system, he'd forgot to set the links in the call points correctly. Quote Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
9651 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 Deffo bi wire? Blue or yellow buttons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertc30 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 LOL.... so it is common these Bi Wire not so cheap at £270.00 ea (well for the 2204) if considered with, in my opinion so much better C-Tec 4 zone ones for almost half the price. Yes guys, it is a 2 wire system. I have had a look and it seems just a conventional open circuit MCP. There's just 2 terminals for pos and 2 terminals for neg where it states 68koms. I apologise but I am still rather new to all this and I honestly thought that all MCPs worked upon open circuit. I also contacted a supplier for the Bi Wire accessories which it seems not so much of an issue to get the all in one SD/HD but it seems MCP's are no longer available?!!!! So, please correct me if I am wrong. MCP's that work on adding resistance to the circuit, they work as the panel is always looking for the EOL 65koms resister but if more resistance is added to the circuit thus preventing the flow of current, the system no longer sees the EOL resister which triggers the alarm into fire mode? Many thanks. Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertc30 Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) Deffo bi wire? Blue or yellow buttons? Hi. Blue buttons mate. Here's a link for the MCP. Here's a link for the panel. Edited December 16, 2015 by albertc30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertc30 Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Would hazard a guess that if it's a Bi-Wire (or 2 wire) system then maybe the call points are not compatible with that panel. Are they standard conventional call points? Could also be that you can use standard call points with the system, but they don't have a firing resistor built into them (ie old Short Circuit=Fire type), hence the fault indication on activation. Had this recently with a sparky installed system, he'd forgot to set the links in the call points correctly. Hi. When you the links in the call point what do you mean? Reason I am asking is cause the MCP installed only has - - + +. I am quite new to the 2 wire install and my work colleges despise these systems. I can see the good points about them but as we are mostly used to install either C-Tec or Kentech, you sort of get used to them and how they work. Many thanks. Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) Fire alarm stuff by Cooper Menvier is a bit - meh... JSB "Bi-wire" was rafiki based detection before rafiki's appeared in the market place It then changed to something different? Now they have Meniver type heads? Cooper normally chop & change stuff w/o having backward compatibility Personally I'd prefer to retain cables, junk controls & devices & put my own kit in place. If you want to get the tat going, wire a callpoint onto a fly lead & make a circuit at the controls with just that item on & work your way though faults Edited December 17, 2015 by MrHappy Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertc30 Posted December 18, 2015 Author Share Posted December 18, 2015 Fire alarm stuff by Cooper Menvier is a bit - meh... JSB "Bi-wire" was rafiki based detection before rafiki's appeared in the market place It then changed to something different? Now they have Meniver type heads? Cooper normally chop & change stuff w/o having backward compatibility Personally I'd prefer to retain cables, junk controls & devices & put my own kit in place. If you want to get the tat going, wire a callpoint onto a fly lead & make a circuit at the controls with just that item on & work your way though faults That's what I had in mind. The best way really but I'll advise him to change the lot for Apollo AlarmSense devices and a 2 Zone "2 Wire" Kentec panel. There's about in the short run and all that needs done to cover rooms that haven't been covered previously that he is set to spend about £700.00. Given that the panel he's got is discontinued and the devices are rubbish (they look nice but too much has been crammed into a single device, 5in1), personally about £500.00 more and he would have such a better system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 It then changed to something different? Fike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Fike raffiki turned into fike, however I think JSB had a "bi wire" heads that where "system sensor" ? Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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