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Is This Live?


skywalker

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Luke,

 

some months ago I got a voltstick with an led torch on it for less than a fiver from cpc, ideal for finding w/o touching whether stuff sticking out the wall is live

 

http://cpc.farnell.com/unbranded/in05688/voltage-detector-light-tone/dp/IN05688?Ntt=IN05688

 

+vat & now more than a fiver,  but there a free post offer on...

i used to have one of them, but not seen it for a while :( dunno where it went.

 

i just use my cable tracer now. not ideal but does the job. if the cable is live you get a loud 50HZ hum, if not, you just get a faint hiss from the various rf the cable picks up.

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Nothing wrong with the use of non-contact voltage indicators IMO, they have their place but that place is not for proving or disproving wether or not a circuit is energised before working on it.

 

Neon screwdrivers should be consigned to the nearest bin following the hammer treatment. Anybody who puts themselves in contact with a potentialy live circuit via a piddly resistor and neon is asking for a belt.

Trade Member

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Nothing wrong with the use of non-contact voltage indicators IMO, they have their place but that place is not for proving or disproving wether or not a circuit is energised before working on it.

Neon screwdrivers should be consigned to the nearest bin following the hammer treatment. Anybody who puts themselves in contact with a potentialy live circuit via a piddly resistor and neon is asking for a belt.

Agreed

We were taught all through college not to have one of those neon testers let alone use it

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Did a job with a m8 and the gas board sent some Polish bloke to do a gas meter swap.

Told the client the meter was live and he would not touch it, so we got called.

Checked it all out and nothing wrong, told client to call them back.

 

Same muppet came and said the same.

 

We came back out and totally proved that this was not live, then asked if the bloke had one of these and picked up a Volt Stick. He said yes. So we shuffled up the carpet and touched the client with it, and told him he was live.

Then called the Gas Board and asked them what the meter man was trained in? We got little responce as you can imgaine, we all know they do a 4 hour course and get a nice certificate!!!

We told them the meter was NOT live and correctly bonded, for them to do the job or send someone who was qualified.

 

We got a call a few days later, another had turned up and there was no issue.

 

AGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG  for the waste of time.

We did not charge the customer either.

Not his fault and we did sort of go past.

And he always gave more work or passed on our names.

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I've been to jobs where the cable ment for the spur is live aswell. Quite often infact.

You'd think a qualified engineer would no not to leave a live cable hanging out of a wall ...

You'd think anyone with a brain would no not to leave a live cable hanging out of a wall ...

www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/

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You'd think a qualified engineer would no not to leave a live cable hanging out of a wall ...

The one which really pisses on my chips is 240v piped though the fire controls 50v on pcb fire relay.

Been zapped enough times to check whats running though relay as bozo the sparkes don't have get around

Mr? Veritas God

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I use handy relay to switch mains with handy relay powered by aux and fire panel relay ( only if its already installed ) on new allow for loop mains switching relay.

Hate seeing panels with mains flying around, usually mdr's.

Always fit back emf protection on handy relays too to protect panel relay.

How many fire panels do you guys come accross with fuked relays on board?

Ive seen quite a few, and the sndr cct becomes the relay trigger :(

Yep, been bitten myself trying to remove the sounder fuses on a Firedex 9000, adjacent to which were the fuses for the aux relay commons, live at 240 for the door retainers!

Seen exactly the same on same panel too!

Local care home installed by sparks

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Nothing wrong with the use of non-contact voltage indicators IMO, they have their place but that place is not for proving or disproving wether or not a circuit is energised before working on it.

 

Neon screwdrivers should be consigned to the nearest bin following the hammer treatment. Anybody who puts themselves in contact with a potentialy live circuit via a piddly resistor and neon is asking for a belt.

 

Include that with the muppets who use a hammer to remove everything. 

 

I have saw many panels with screwed relays on them.   

 

I am also Multi Trained for Fire & Security systems. - I think a lot of Engineers are now multi trained.   

 

I also noticed Everest are trying to enter the Home Security Market.   Sounds like a other British Gas try 

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They have been for a while now.

 

Also seen a FCU with just the neutral split. Line and Earth running straight through!!!!!!!!!!!

Pulled fuse and removed mains cable and zap. Thanks a fuggin lot dopey git before me.  Was removing the panel to relocate when business had moved.

 

A nice reminder to "check and test" TWICE

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i find this thread rather funny!

 

as a qualified electrician, and a suitable qualified and registred intruder and fire alarm engineer

i, like most of us, have come accross disturbing cables and connection points on a weekly basis!

 

i ahve just come back from a CCTV install (finish off job, sign off etc) the builders mate is making

off connections in a three phase mains board to feed a dishwasher!!

 

the board is still live and he has no test equipoemnt, all he has is a stanley screwdriver and a pair

of combimnation plyers, no earth sleeving.

 

also i found out that he fitted the three spurs i needed and the double unswitched socket outlets!

 

so, just to make sure before final connection of kit, i removed the accessories and had a look, all were

wired wrong phase/neutral earth cut off!!!!

 

so we approached the owner, he reply was,  `it works dont it!`, yep we re wired and re connected the supply

the reason why, i want the cheque from the building owner!!!

 

yep i find em everywere!!!  (not that difficult really!)

 

some sarks i have worked with a bloody good, but alop do not understand the regs

 

Oasis

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  • 1 month later...

Another method I agree, but even so neons and voltsticks should be banned.

Two pole and proving in an ideal world or a DVM.

you can never be too cautious when testing fir live mains, either of the above options your relying on test leads having good continuity, but after a period of time there is high risk of them breaking within the sleeving, especially in the highly flexed portion of the leads.

intermittent leads could give false results ending up with a risk of severe shock for the user (even after having used a testing block).

personally my first test is using Fluke Volt Light 4L, this has. very bright LED but alsi a handy clip when yiu need ti free a hand. if no indication (because it has an off/on switch and batteries), i use a Fluke 15B DVM, still no indication i then check using 2 different neon drivers.

even after all that, i never grab a 'known dead' lead, but always perform a test with a swipe using the back of my finger so i can't grip if it is live.

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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you can never be too cautious when testing fir live mains, either of the above options your relying on test leads having good continuity, but after a period of time there is high risk of them breaking within the sleeving, especially in the highly flexed portion of the leads.

intermittent leads could give false results ending up with a risk of severe shock for the user (even after having used a testing block).

personally my first test is using Fluke Volt Light 4L, this has. very bright LED but alsi a handy clip when yiu need ti free a hand. if no indication (because it has an off/on switch and batteries), i use a Fluke 15B DVM, still no indication i then check using 2 different neon drivers.

even after all that, i never grab a 'known dead' lead, but always perform a test with a swipe using the back of my finger so i can't grip if it is live.

 

Would rather a DVM than a stick that lights up if rubbed.

 

As for neons, ffs give it a rest.

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So, lets not use a meter because the leads might be faulty?

Hmm

 

Volt stick and neon to be the order of the day.

 

To avoid any doubt, the word to use here is dangerous.

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Funny enough whenever I use a DVM I check the resistance of the leads  before "using" it.

 

One reason is I sometimes forget to put leads back after a MA reading.

 

So no way do I get caught out.

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Funny enough whenever I use a DVM I check the resistance of the leads  before "using" it.

 

One reason is I sometimes forget to put leads back after a MA reading.

 

So no way do I get caught out.

And checking with a proving unit is not a bad idea either.

Thing is, it is recommended to check an electrical appliance before each use, to not check a meter and leads is folly.

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I was just about to say, I test the curcuit before doing anything, Get the lockout kit out of the van and lock it off for safety.

 

Before working on it, test with my martindale voltage tester, If its dead, Use my proving unit to verify. Its the best and only way in my opinion

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So, lets not use a meter because the leads might be faulty?

Hmm

Volt stick and neon to be the order of the day.

To avoid any doubt, the word to use here is dangerous.

ah, so now we get ti your basis for repeated insult and repeated slander?

where did i ever say not to use a meter? i perform and advise 4 tests at least one with a meter, how on Gods green earth can that ever be dangerous?

if you trust any flexible copper leads, even on a 2 point tester as having permanent continuity, you are not just badly trained, highly dangerous but mad as a hatter.

as stated, they do break within the plastic/rubber sleeving, not just wear and tear, but get caught in car doors, or yanked by tripping or whilst tangled. i have even seen 'engineers' twirling test kit by there leads.

most often they break where the cable enters the probe plug, but also within the probe itself from the constant bending and twisting in se. with the retractable insulated probes the plug can intermittently fail to make contact with the socket, especially split male pin versions.

Test Leads can show continuity when touched together using ohms (traditional standard meter test), but disconnect when you apply to test volts. Meter range selection and the switches themselves are also a source of dangerous mis reads.

use a volt stick - battery operated, do i honestly need to say more?

btw, anyone trained using damp or wet test equipment of any kind, thats not just been out if their sight, but brought to them by an untrained (let alone trained person), working on mains in a pit, as was claimed in the neon screwdriver discussion thread (so come on, really anyone, REALLY?), should be locked up for their own bloody stupidity - and societies safety in general.

or was that you in that pit?

Funny enough whenever I use a DVM I check the resistance of the leads before "using" it.

One reason is I sometimes forget to put leads back after a MA reading.

So no way do I get caught out.

that will save your meter from harm, but not you.

And checking with a proving unit is not a bad idea either.

Thing is, it is recommended to check an electrical appliance before each use, to not check a meter and leads is folly.

so how would you test for intermittent test leads?

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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