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skywalker

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And a simple test for DVM leads is to diss one and use the other probe in its missing partners port.

Thus proving both leads and the meter.

 

Do stop being a muppet Arf.

 

See, even being polite there.

Used "Arf" not any other name.

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You really need to pay attention to the dribble you post and stop making out others practice the daft stuff you infer.

Sorry James and others who actually know what they are doing- but this buffoon has to be grounded :!

Goodness sakes Cubit be specific man about what you think i say is dangerous!! this is possibly among the most serious subject to discuss!

if its 'Dribble' point it out, don't spare my feelings (as if!) or add to my posts with blatant misrepresentation of what i actually posted, as in your #46 "according to me just to trust volt sticks and neons" totally untrue, and highly dangerous remark that could confuse.

i stated you can not be to careful - and why not to trust any leaded or battery devices on their own, and the order of tests i use. in your headling charge to provoke for your own gratification, i remmind you forums have newbs as well very experienced engineers in here to back you up if needed.So why not just blow me out of the water for EVERYONE to see - you might even save a newbs life your so concerned about safety, after all you don't miss a chance to call me dangerous, yet you can't put into words why.

I'm sure your a hero in your own diary, so go for it big boy, stop sneering like some prissy spectacled nerd who takes good twating from me as an occupational hazard.

Be a man for a change I dare you to put up, or better shut up being a dangerous person by continuing to cloud and confusing the issues of life safety, just to provoke is just so sickening..

wheres YOUR common sense? (Google It if lost).

Most proving units that i know of will only work with LED Voltage indicators, They wont work on a DVM

Thanks PSE fir the info,

was not aware of that - but i bet there will be e few redder faces than mine, but at least they and i be safer orr it ;).

And a simple test for DVM leads is to diss one and use the other probe in its missing partners port.

Thus proving both leads and the meter.

Do stop being a muppet Arf.

See, even being polite there.

Used "Arf" not any other name.

So i'm a muppet? to use your own favourite words -:

FLAWED, inconclusive and VERY DANGEROUS! to rely on that test, especially when checking for potentially lethal voltages.

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Still at I see witless.

true to form, boxed in like some dock rat who cannot backup your lofty generalisations, you resort to childish insult instead of a concise, intelligent, informed response to dam me into oblivion.

(some fekking chance! )

Guys, in Cubits absence of detailed repost, and by his resorting to insult i claim to have cut Cubit a new ****.

woops!, i just misrepresented - Cubit your just a total **** (sorry to all the other smaller Total Arses everywhere for adding such a proven diy div to your company).

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Don't disagree. with that.

 

The bit that puzzles me in this is some having serious doubts to the reliability of their meter but putting implicit trust in the correct working of a volt stick and worse, a neon.

What happened to the bit about regular testing and inspection of test equipment?

 

Without the meter i wouldn't have noticed the neutral sitting at 30v relative to earth on Friday.

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Forgive this post please, from someone who does not own a volt stick of any kind.

 

If they are as dangerous as, nearly, everyone here, says, how come no one has pointed to a person who has been killed or seriously injured from using one of these. Has it happened?

 

How come they are sold in every DiY premises in the country and also many other outlets that sell electrical equipment.

 

Surely Trading Standards would have been 'all over' the sellers/manufacturers by now to get these things removed from the shelves?

Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care.

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Forgive this post please, from someone who does not own a volt stick of any kind.

this type...

Volt-stick.jpg

 

If they are as dangerous as, nearly, everyone here, says, how come no one has pointed to a person who has been killed or seriously injured from using one of these. Has it happened?

Using the magic of google, but note the dot au & its on page 5

 

Case 3

The deceased, who was a building and

maintenance manager, received a fatal

electrical injury whilst working on an air

conditioning unit in their workplace. It appears

that the deceased utilised a proximity volt-

tester at the time of death since this device was

discovered near the deceased’s head.

“1.

The Department of Fair Trading should review

the adequacy of the precautions attached

to the sale of proximity voltage testers (“volt

sticks”) in light of their inherent unreliability and

potentially fatal consequences.

 

http://www.ncis.org.au/web_pages/Feb%202012%20FACT-SHEET%20-%20Electrocution%20related%20deaths.pdf

 

How come they are sold in every DiY premises in the country and also many other outlets that sell electrical equipment.

Same reason you can buy red plastic clips for FP, people want to buy 'em

Mr? Veritas God

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Forgive this post please, from someone who does not own a volt stick of any kind.

 

If they are as dangerous as, nearly, everyone here, says, how come no one has pointed to a person who has been killed or seriously injured from using one of these. Has it happened?

 

How come they are sold in every DiY premises in the country and also many other outlets that sell electrical equipment.

 

Surely Trading Standards would have been 'all over' the sellers/manufacturers by now to get these things removed from the shelves?

Use them as a basic indicator. Is it live? yes? No?

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> Use them as a basic indicator. Is it live? yes? No?

 

Exactly. That is the one and only use they should ever be put to, and even then some of them only tell you if a voltage greater than the neon's striking voltage is present. The graduated multi LED ones are a bit better, but still wholly inadequate for measuring and kind of voltage, whether safety is involved or not. Damned things should be collected up and buried, en masse.

 

bee

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Forgive this post please, from someone who does not own a volt stick of any kind.

 

If they are as dangerous as, nearly, everyone here, says, how come no one has pointed to a person who has been killed or seriously injured from using one of these. Has it happened?

 

How come they are sold in every DiY premises in the country and also many other outlets that sell electrical equipment.

 

Surely Trading Standards would have been 'all over' the sellers/manufacturers by now to get these things removed from the shelves?

 

 

I have one built into my Fluke multimeter. I'd only use it as a general indication.

I'd never think of touching live conductors without testing them "properly" first.

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you can never be too cautious when testing fir live mains, either of the above options your relying on test leads having good continuity, but after a period of time there is high risk of them breaking within the sleeving, especially in the highly flexed portion of the leads.

intermittent leads could give false results ending up with a risk of severe shock for the user (even after having used a testing block).

personally my first test is using Fluke Volt Light 4L, this has. very bright LED but alsi a handy clip when yiu need ti free a hand. if no indication (because it has an off/on switch and batteries), i use a Fluke 15B DVM, still no indication i then check using 2 different neon drivers.

even after all that, i never grab a 'known dead' lead, but always perform a test with a swipe using the back of my finger so i can't grip if it is live.

 

So Safe Isolation is pants compared to your LED sticks?

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> Use them as a basic indicator. Is it live? yes? No?

Exactly. That is the one and only use they should ever be put to, and even then some of them only tell you if a voltage greater than the neon's striking voltage is present. The graduated multi LED ones are a bit better, but still wholly inadequate for measuring and kind of voltage, whether safety is involved or not. Damned things should be collected up and buried, en masse.

bee

neon striking voltage is far lower the very dangerous 240 vac, even building sites use 110 vac and on glass bulbs, which when broken exposes bare electrodes. 110 will still give you a fair jolt but less likely to kill.

The metre has never let me down tbh.

Of it ever does then I will post on here.

how about the hundred yards dash ;).

So Safe Isolation is pants compared to your LED sticks?

Sorry, i'm not being evasive but i'm not sure of your question, where did i say or intimate safe isolation was pants?

Safe Isolation while is always advisable is not usually practical in a busy environment, do you agree or not?

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Yes, about 90V, that was my point.

bee

ok, if we agree.,belt from between 80 and 150 ac can be unpleasant but is not as dangerous.

if so, the neon because it will indicate from below to 500 volts, is highly reliable at warning of a possible (i.e. higher) dangerous voltage potential?

The metre has never let me down tbh.

Of it ever does then I will post on here.

being serious, you test it before use every time for the day it do's let you down and then you don't get dead!

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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neon striking voltage is far lower the very dangerous 240 vac, even building sites use 110 vac and on glass bulbs, which when broken exposes bare electrodes. 110 will still give you a fair jolt but less likely to kill.

how about the hundred yards dash ;).

Sorry, i'm not being evasive but i'm not sure of your question, where did i say or intimate safe isolation was pants?

Safe Isolation while is always advisable is not usually practical in a busy environment, do you agree or not?

It's 55v on site transformers

 

And why would safe isolation be impractical?

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It's 55v on site transformers

 

And why would safe isolation be impractical?

site Transformers are still 110 vac to my knowledge

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Site_Equipment_Index/Site_Transformers/index.html

read what i posted earlier to save duplicity

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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neon striking voltage is far lower the very dangerous 240 vac, even building sites use 110 vac and on glass bulbs, which when broken exposes bare electrodes. 110 will still give you a fair jolt but less likely to kill.

how about the hundred yards dash ;).

Sorry, i'm not being evasive but i'm not sure of your question, where did i say or intimate safe isolation was pants?

Safe Isolation while is always advisable is not usually practical in a busy environment, do you agree or not?

 

I inferred it because you are stating that voltage pens are better instrument than an actual meter?

 

Safe Isolation is paramount. It is never too busy or impractical. EVER. This is why we have proving units, calibrated meters and lock off devices.

site Transformers are still 110 vac to my knowledge

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Site_Equipment_Index/Site_Transformers/index.html

read what i posted earlier to save duplicity

 

55v across a single phase. Double to get 110v. You are not an electrician.

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