21 replies to this topic

[ChrisSparks]

Hi I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on a problem I am having with an Urmet 1145/1 intercom module.
The problem is it has an intermittant call button, it requires 2 or 3 pushes for it to connect.
Thinking the unit was faulty, I replaced the module for a new one and reprogramed it, but it still does exactly the same thing !
I have checked the power cables to the module are providing the correct voltage etc, which they are.
Now I am thinking there is a communication problem at the pabx system in one direction, as I can call the module every time from the phones in the house,
Any help will be apprietiated.
Thanks in advance
Chris

[fozzies]

Plugging a phone in at the panel would test the pabx and line at the same time. i would have suspected a dodgy button too, you could test that by putting a volt meter across both sides of the call button and pushing it. failing that your only left with psu, but that would be strange, i would have thought a collapsing psu would fail to make a complete call at all.
Does the supply collapse when you push the call button?

Edited by fozzies, 25 October 2011 - 07:26 PM.

[fozzies]

Another thought. is it an old pabx? Maybe its frequency has drifted a bit and isnt always recognising the tones correctly. a calibrated butt phone would prove that

[ChrisSparks]

fozzies, on 25 October 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

Plugging a phone in at the panel would test the pabx and line at the same time. i would have suspected a dodgy button too, you could test that by putting a volt meter across both sides of the call button and pushing it. failing that your only left with psu, but that would be strange, i would have thought a collapsing psu would fail to make a complete call at all.
Does the supply collapse when you push the call button?

Hi fozzies, I have just been to check the continuity ( which in fairness I had not done to the new module) across the call button and they make and break every time, the voltage into the module is 12.3v and is constant whether the button is pressed or not, I did notice that the psu is not that dissimiler to a laptop psu, being fed by the mains via a figure of 8 cable, which in turn feeds the intercom module and 2 keypad modules in parrallel, is this a standard psu for this kind of setup?
as I'm now suspecting that there is a possibility that when it was installed just over 3yrs ago, it just about coped but is beggining to fail due to overload!
It's a weird one because it's almost giving the symptoms of a corroded cable, sometimes working, sometimes not.
I think I will replace the psu with something a little more substantial and replace the cables from it to the intercom module also.

The pabx system is realitivley new Samsung unit and after talking to the installers of this, they assure me that if it works in one direction it will work in the other direction as it is just a 2 wire system, and thinking about it, when the module seizes the line, the connection is always made.
It's just getting the module to do it's job and seize the line on the first button press every time.
Thank you fossies for your helpful advise.
Chris

[fozzies]

Imo there is more to be checked bwfore new psu. no time to post atm, will reply properly later tonight

[ChrisSparks]

fozzies, on 26 October 2011 - 02:32 PM, said:

Imo there is more to be checked bwfore new psu. no time to post atm, will reply properly later tonight

Thanks, I look forward to your post later.

[fozzies]

Sorry, i shoulda explained myself better in my first post. if you put your meter onto dc volts and place one probe onto one side of the button and the other on the other, you would expect to see a voltage when not pressed and no voltage when not pressed. not only does this way of testing confirm the continuity of the switch, but also that it actually connects to something.
The 12.3volts , whilst seeming a little low, should not prevent the unit from working, and as you say that it remains constant when the button is pushed then the psu is not collapsing.
That leaves us with phome line problems imo. the panel connects into a phone line, and when you push a button on the panel, it dials a telephone number just like you woild do at home using dtmf tones.this is why its relevant to actually plug a phone in at the panel location and to dial some extensions from it.if a calibrated test phone fails to make a call then the pabx is not listening to quite the right frequency. if it does make a call then the fault lies with the urmet panel, either with the frequency again, or with the number it is actually dialling. have you checked the number it is dialling? Maybe the pabx needs a pause and it isnt pausing?

[ChrisSparks]

fozzies, on 26 October 2011 - 04:14 PM, said:

Sorry, i shoulda explained myself better in my first post. if you put your meter onto dc volts and place one probe onto one side of the button and the other on the other, you would expect to see a voltage when not pressed and no voltage when not pressed. not only does this way of testing confirm the continuity of the switch, but also that it actually connects to something.
The 12.3volts , whilst seeming a little low, should not prevent the unit from working, and as you say that it remains constant when the button is pushed then the psu is not collapsing.
That leaves us with phome line problems imo. the panel connects into a phone line, and when you push a button on the panel, it dials a telephone number just like you woild do at home using dtmf tones.this is why its relevant to actually plug a phone in at the panel location and to dial some extensions from it.if a calibrated test phone fails to make a call then the pabx is not listening to quite the right frequency. if it does make a call then the fault lies with the urmet panel, either with the frequency again, or with the number it is actually dialling. have you checked the number it is dialling? Maybe the pabx needs a pause and it isnt pausing?

Hi, yes I did check there was voltage across the switch when it was pressed, and yes there was, it's my fault not explaining myself...sorry.

When I programmed the module, at first I did not know the group ext no. so I checked it by programming it with a known ext no. , once I knew dedicated group number I put that in and it would ring all the phones with it's special ring, athough thoughout this process the call button was intermittant !
I made sure that dial had a 2 second pause as you quite rightly pointed out about the pabx, as apparently most systems can cope with 2 secs.

The telecoms guys are coming out to run a scheduled maintanace next week, so I shall get them to carry out the tests on the ext to the module with their test phone and hopefully that will identify if there is a problem with the ext or the pabx.

It just strikes me as strange that the new module has exactly the same fault as the old unit, if indeed it is the module at fault, also the power supply seems to power the keypad entries ok, they never miss a beat so I suppose it does point to the telecoms side, im just wondering if there is a parameter in the programming of the module that I have overlooked or whether i should double up the power cables to the module to just be on the safe side.

I really can't thank you enough for taking the time to answer and explain things.
Chris

[fozzies]

i dont believe in coinsidences, not where electronics are concerned. i also believe there is nothing wrong with your psu, unless it is a noisy one( and you could only tell that with a scope), and they only come around once in a blue moon.
Owing to the fact that urmet now require you to register, and pay, for every system you work on and didnt install if you require tech support, we are now starting to replace with alternatives where possible. the cheek of it, charging to support a product!
As for thanks, no worries, but you could clicky on the thanks button as i got a collection im working on

[ChrisSparks]

I forgot to say, yes the number the module

fozzies, on 26 October 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

i dont believe in coinsidences, not where electronics are concerned. i also believe there is nothing wrong with your psu, unless it is a noisy one( and you could only tell that with a scope), and they only come around once in a blue moon.
Owing to the fact that urmet now require you to register, and pay, for every system you work on and didnt install if you require tech support, we are now starting to replace with alternatives where possible. the cheek of it, charging to support a product!
As for thanks, no worries, but you could clicky on the thanks button as i got a collection im working on

Yes im of the same opinion about coinsidences.
I'm not an installer and it's even harder to get any information out of Urmet, but they did give me the programming guide for the module after asking nicley! but it has been an up hill struggle, especially as information will only be provided if you are an installer and you subscribe to their payment system.
I wouldn't mind but I got volunteered into to this by my wife! for her friend...as a favour lol
Like I said Thanks again! and where do I find your thanks button? as I am not so familiar with this site as of yet...but I get the feeling I will.
Chris

[fozzies]

No idea on the button mate lol, i only use the mobile side of this website, i assumed it was on the main website as i noticed i had some thanks on me profile lol.
Bring back wifey beating imo, lives would be so much simpler then;D

[ChrisSparks]

fozzies, on 26 October 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

No idea on the button mate lol, i only use the mobile side of this website, i assumed it was on the main website as i noticed i had some thanks on me profile lol.
Bring back wifey beating imo, lives would be so much simpler then;D

I found a profile feed and left a message there, Reckon a wife beating is in order but she has the rolling pin lol

[ChrisSparks]

Just a quick update:-

The telecoms people came today and checked the line from the module to the pabx with a butt phone, which showed no faults on the line. The Samsung system is a digital system and is quite new and does not suffer with drifting frequencys (according to the engineer).
When the engineer rebooted the pabx system, the module worked for half an hour as it should, but then went back to being intermittant.
The paired cables between the module and the pabx were swapped with a spare pair and retested with the butt phone, but the call button was still intermittant.
The paired cables show a voltage of 42v from the pabx to the module, the voltage from the psu is a constant 12.3v the call switch is is functional in itself and I am now at a complete loss as to what it could be!!

[fozzies]

From the above i note it worked for thirty minutes after the pabx had been reset. if that was the only thing done then it has to be the pabx. try resetting the pabx again, does it all start working again?
If it does, give the fault back to the pabx engineers

And before you wonder, im not permannetly wired into this site, pure fluke i logged in six mins after you posted lol

[ChrisSparks]

fozzies, on 02 November 2011 - 03:03 PM, said:

From the above i note it worked for thirty minutes after the pabx had been reset. if that was the only thing done then it has to be the pabx. try resetting the pabx again, does it all start working again?
If it does, give the fault back to the pabx engineers

And before you wonder, im not permannetly wired into this site, pure fluke i logged in six mins after you posted lol

Hi, the pabx was reset about three times during the maintanace visit, but the module only seemed to work after the first pabx reboot, but as I said for just half an hour.

[fozzies]

Only thing i can think of doing now is to try the panel with a different telephone line, preferably a non pabx line. maybe you could run a bit of 3 pair from an outgoing line and test it directly. would need to program in a new telepjone number though. 2 and 5 are the connections you need in a bt socket
sounds to me you got a nasty call for even someone familiar with the gear now, good luck!
To recap on your possible faults:
Psu - unlikely as steady voltage reading if a little low
module - unlikely as 2nd unit with same fault
programming of module- works for 30 mins so not this
cabling- tested by using different pair and butt phone so not this
pabx- resetting made it work once
i know where i think the problem is, but the pabx company say not. if you are still stuck after the above i'd say its time they called in a pro, we have covered everything it could be imo

[ChrisSparks]

fozzies, on 02 November 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

Only thing i can think of doing now is to try the panel with a different telephone line, preferably a non pabx line. maybe you could run a bit of 3 pair from an outgoing line and test it directly. would need to program in a new telepjone number though. 2 and 5 are the connections you need in a bt socket
sounds to me you got a nasty call for even someone familiar with the gear now, good luck!
To recap on your possible faults:
Psu - unlikely as steady voltage reading if a little low
module - unlikely as 2nd unit with same fault
programming of module- works for 30 mins so not this
cabling- tested by using different pair and butt phone so not this
pabx- resetting made it work once
i know where i think the problem is, but the pabx company say not. if you are still stuck after the above i'd say its time they called in a pro, we have covered everything it could be imo

Yes I think your right about getting in a pro, I think I've gone as far as I can with this now and your right this was just a favour and it's become a royal pain in the butt !! Time to let the owners deal with it and spend some money me thinks.
Well thanks for all your time and if you pm me your details, I'll pass them on....if you want !!
Regards
Chris

[fozzies]

Had one other thought. maybe try powering it down for an hour or so, and see if it works then

[ChrisSparks]

fozzies, on 02 November 2011 - 05:10 PM, said:

Had one other thought. maybe try powering it down for an hour or so, and see if it works then

Hi, do you mean the module or the pabx?

[fozzies]

Module. just in case something is deteriorating with heat. we are into the realms of try ot and see if it really isnt the pabx now