42 replies to this topic

[jameswilson]

Just a brief topic to update us on what you all expect from TSI.

So what are we doing wrong, what could we be doing better and heaven forbid are we doing anything right.

Public post but id like to hear your comments. whatever they may be.

James

[kensplace]

Agree with the above.

Also, any thoughts of relaxing the trade section to include people who are not in the security trade, but who have a great interest in the various aspects the sites cover, have been on the forum for a long time, have a high post count and demonstrated knowledge/interest in the subject over a long period?

As anyone who is not working for the trade wont be able to get in, they are missing out on whatever is in that side (mainly the ability to be able to discuss topics in more depth, that cannot be done in public, or rather should not be done in public).

As at present the main qualification seems to be your working for or own a security company, yet If a criminal wanted to get access they could spend less than a hundred, set up a company off the shelf and bingo - their in....

[TheTechGuy]

Perhaps as an aside from the above post the forum could more pro-actively seek to encourage manufacturers involvement in the site.

Maybe a simple email to ask them if they have any technical or sales staff who would be willing to answer queries if they arise? Maybe even set an account up for them to pass to an authorised contact if they wish to proceed? (You have to make it as easy as possible to say yes).

'J

[Cubit]

TheTechGuy, on Mar 2 2009, 04:23 PM, said:

Perhaps as an aside from the above post the forum could more pro-actively seek to encourage manufacturers involvement in the site.

Maybe a simple email to ask them if they have any technical or sales staff who would be willing to answer queries if they arise? Maybe even set an account up for them to pass to an authorised contact if they wish to proceed? (You have to make it as easy as possible to say yes).

'J

That brings with it certain issues regarding validity of advice and any potential liability thereafter.
Some within Manufacturing have/do try to participate but, and this is a particular hobby horse of mine, they are not allowed into the very forums where any particular detail may be posted.

Also, from a manufacturing perspective, any pertinent issues should be getting raised with them when they occur, as in, at work. Many do make information readily available it's just that people don't seem to be bothered to access it or read it.

[lawandorder]

kensplace, on Mar 2 2009, 04:20 PM, said:

Agree with the above.

Also, any thoughts of relaxing the trade section to include people who are not in the security trade, but who have a great interest in the various aspects the sites cover, have been on the forum for a long time, have a high post count and demonstrated knowledge/interest in the subject over a long period?
As anyone who is not working for the trade wont be able to get in, they are missing out on whatever is in that side (mainly the ability to be able to discuss topics in more depth, that cannot be done in public, or rather should not be done in public).

As at present the main qualification seems to be your working for or own a security company, yet If a criminal wanted to get access they could spend less than a hundred, set up a company off the shelf and bingo - their in....

I agree with the above, I no longer work in the industry (well I do the odd bit of contracting) so it would be difficult for me to gain trade membership and also, as we all know, even with a good knowledge of alarms it is difficult to defeat a well designed system so I feel it could be relaxed to some extent.

[A-G]

Trade is trade.

There is ample opportunity to discuss alarm circuitry, Etc. in the public area. The discussions in the trade area go into greater depth & detail and without fear of compromising anyone's security because the discussion is between professionals working within the industry.

Relaxing the rules on illegibility to the trade area would defeat the whole idea of having a trade only area. .... It's got to be trade only or not at all.

[luggsey]

RJBsec, on Mar 2 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

Unfortunately Andrew, many installers have consistently found that when they report problems the response is "we haven't heard that before" - on a site like this it's more difficult to pull that one if a number of installers all confirm the problem.
However I think a manufacturer's presence would benefit in many areas not just 'complaints', advice of new products/ideas, reporting wish-lists etc.

Hang on, what manufacturer with problem kit would want to be on the forum trying to 'help' sort out problems?
It would be a terrible advert to have problems listed out on a internet forum?
It's a lose lose for them in many ways.
I think that's why they stay away....
A certain fire alarm manufacturer would get totally slated if they dared show up on here!

Hats off to the one's that do show up on here then...

[Vince8282]

Hi James
I agree with all that Roger and Paul have said but have mixed
feelings of manufacturers as some are very good and some are pirates.

Just as the bloke from Proctor and Gamble said 50% of his advertizing
costs were a waste of money but the trouble was he didn't know which
50%. With us quite a lot of what we say is also rubish but you have to go
through the rubish to find the gems and this site has many gems including
quite a few of it's members both trade and non-trade.
best wishes to all
Vince

[lawandorder]

Oxo, on Mar 2 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

QFA

well I do understand where you are coming from on this but what about ex trade?

What happens when a current trade member, who may have devoted his entire working life to the industry retires?

Does anybody benefit from his trade membership being pulled?

Would his membership be pulled?

[A-G]

lawandorder, on Mar 2 2009, 08:59 PM, said:

well I do understand where you are coming from on this but what about ex trade?

What happens when a current trade member, who may have devoted his entire working life to the industry retires?

Does anybody benefit from his trade membership being pulled?

Would his membership be pulled?

There will never be a perfect solution. It's easy to find anomalies ........ but what we've got is near enough

[Cubit]

RJBsec, on Mar 2 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

Unfortunately Andrew, many installers have consistently found that when they report problems the response is "we haven't heard that before" - on a site like this it's more difficult to pull that one if a number of installers all confirm the problem.
However I think a manufacturer's presence would benefit in many areas not just 'complaints', advice of new products/ideas, reporting wish-lists etc.

One or two of us did try Rodger. But without access (no pun intended) to the trade forums, manufacturers don't have a chance. I accept some of the reasons they are kept out but by the same token, they can't answer what they can't see.
Anyway, been there, done that as they say.

Regarding the 'never heard that one before'. I have to say that is an absolute red rag response. Was so even when i was the Manufacturer. Reps/techs would gain far greater respect if they simply acknowledged the problem. It may not be in their remit to resolve it (the problem) satisfactorily, but it is certainly their duty to damn well try. What i've never understood is manufacturers moaning about poor sales when they have a product with a widely known problem that they refuse to resolve.

[lawandorder]

AlarmGuard, on Mar 2 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

There will never be a perfect solution. It's easy to find anomalies ........ but what we've got is near enough

Well to be honest I'm only playing devils advocate, from a personal standpoint I don't actually now what goes on in the trade area so I don't actually know what i'm missing.

I do think though that it's likely that there are retired/semi-retired engineers out there who could offer a lot of help on the trade side particualry in areas such as business development.

At the moment we have a situation where potential trade members are vetted by ensuring that they work in the industry (by my understanding at least). It would be a fairly easy matter for most ex engineers to prove they once worked in the industry I would have thought.

It does strike me as a little strange that, potentially at least, a convict could come out of prison tomorrow and start trading in the alarm industry perfectly legitimately and immidiately achieve trade staus with the same priveleges as the MD of a major national company.

[Cubit]

RJBsec, on Mar 2 2009, 09:08 PM, said:

Well that was only one aspect - this forum used to be well represented by manufacturers, it could be again but it would need to be much more 'professional' and manufacturers would need to feel protected from abuse - not good discussion but abuse.

agreed.
surprsing how many 'engineers' ring for advice on the most basic of things. When asked why they don't look it up in the manual the response is often "can't be arsed", "oh, that, threw it in skip", "why should i, got you to do it fo me" etc. . . These same guys are usually the ones moaning their t1ts off about a product and how c##p they think it is.

lawandorder, on Mar 2 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

It does strike me as a little strange that, potentially at least, a convict could come out of prison tomorrow and start trading in the alarm industry perfectly legitimately and immidiately achieve trade staus with the same priveleges as the MD of a major national company.

You know 'Marky'??
In case you're wondering, he managed it.

[kensplace]

lawandorder, on Mar 2 2009, 09:19 PM, said:

Well to be honest I'm only playing devils advocate, from a personal standpoint I don't actually now what goes on in the trade area so I don't actually know what i'm missing.

I do think though that it's likely that there are retired/semi-retired engineers out there who could offer a lot of help on the trade side particualry in areas such as business development.

At the moment we have a situation where potential trade members are vetted by ensuring that they work in the industry (by my understanding at least). It would be a fairly easy matter for most ex engineers to prove they once worked in the industry I would have thought.

It does strike me as a little strange that, potentially at least, a convict could come out of prison tomorrow and start trading in the alarm industry perfectly legitimately and immidiately achieve trade staus with the same priveleges as the MD of a major national company.

Exactly, anyone can start a company, cheaply.
Anyone can make a website, cheaply.

At present I have had to discuss some issues in the public area that should really have been in private, and whats more annoying is many trade members thought what I was saying was impossible, if a non trade member can point things out that trade members should be aware of, but were not - then that does not say much about the current vetting procedure really.

Working for a company does not automatically make a trade member knowledgable, nor honest.
It just means they work for a company, which anyone could have set up, for any purpose.